Instead of AAP, Honors classes starting in 3rd grade

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honors is open to all - it is in middle school. No math testing is needed in middle school, and it should be the same in elementary school.

VA should be more like NY. Regents and non-regents. One is harder material for those going to college. The other is more business focused for house going into technical training or non-college related fields of work.

GE is basically a wash for any high-achieving child. Any parent who has a hard-working child with smarts is going to push for AAP.

I had one child in AAP. Our second child is very bright and hard-working, but wasn't in-pool. We didn't push for AAP for this child because the whole system seems completely blown out of proportion - too many pushy parents, kids who think they're superior just because they got into AAP, and a whole lot of busy work. It would be great if Gen Ed was a more challenging curriculum, but after having one child go through AAP, we realized the AAP curriculum isn't what we had in mind (project after project isn't our idea of an "advanced curriculum"). We just decided to do a lot of supplementing at home and it's been working out great. In fact, I'd say this child has gotten a better, more focused education than the one who was in AAP.

My kid just finished with AAP, third through eighth grades. Maybe it was because he qualified for the program seven years back, but at that time there was no discussion among parents of who was or wasn't in the pool, no agonizing over GBRS or all these other alphabet soup tests, no attempts (that I ever heard from any parent) to re-test kids or appeal and appeal to get them into the pool, etc. I never heard of all that stuff until I looked on DCUM a few years ago; we were just told that our kid had qualified based on testing. Maybe it was because our base school was pretty remedial due to a lot of kids who needed help, but teachers basically encouraged kids who learned faster to get out and go to the AAP center if possible, period. Once our kid was at the elementary center, in four years I only encountered one set of parents I would really call "pushy" about their kid's academics, and yeah, they were a pain, but they weren't the norm. And I spent time in the school with some extracurriculars that were done mostly by the AAP students, and volunteering in classrooms, and I can recall maybe one kid over the years who had any attitude of superiority about being in AAP.

I wonder if, in the past six years or so, there has been a lot more focus on the qualifying testing, and parents have gotten more aggressive about getting kids into AAP come hell or high water or even moving house? ....We and other families we know well just didn't experience or hear about the whole hand-wringing DCUM stuff of "Where else can I get my kid tested" and "Is this score good enough" and "Should we move to get into this or that AAP center eventually" like I feel I see here all the time. It just wasn't our experience at all, so I wonder if it's a more recent thing among some parents to be pushy and encourage their kids to feel superior. My kid had six years of excellent teachers (I can only think of maybe one who was "checked out" and not trying; the rest were creative and took things beyond what I know general ed and even MS honors were doing) and peers who were overall nice kids. I guess it's down to the individual schools a child attends, and ours were ones where the teachers seemed engaged and our kid came home talking about some very creative things going on in the classrooms.

I don't disagree with PP that there surely are pushy parents and snotty kids in AAP, but it's not everyone, everywhere.

Thanks for posting this. I could have written this post, although my oldest is starting high school and my youngest is still in AAP (middle school).

I think I am in the Wrong Part of the County, though, as I can think of only two incidents of "AAP superiority" over the last six years of AAP. And that's with volunteering in the classroom regularly, serving as an after-school program coordinator for 3 years, and volunteering for the PTAs of two schools.

I simply have not seen the levels of AAP angst reported on DCUM. Like I said, it may just be my part of the county.

[Anonymous]

You're not in the "wrong part" --- you're in the right part! Seriously, like you, AAP is not on the radar of 90%+ of the people in my kids' base school... and yet, somehow... they manage to live seemingly normal lives!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honors is open to all - it is in middle school. No math testing is needed in middle school, and it should be the same in elementary school.

VA should be more like NY. Regents and non-regents. One is harder material for those going to college. The other is more business focused for house going into technical training or non-college related fields of work.

GE is basically a wash for any high-achieving child. Any parent who has a hard-working child with smarts is going to push for AAP.

I had one child in AAP. Our second child is very bright and hard-working, but wasn't in-pool. We didn't push for AAP for this child because the whole system seems completely blown out of proportion - too many pushy parents, kids who think they're superior just because they got into AAP, and a whole lot of busy work. It would be great if Gen Ed was a more challenging curriculum, but after having one child go through AAP, we realized the AAP curriculum isn't what we had in mind (project after project isn't our idea of an "advanced curriculum"). We just decided to do a lot of supplementing at home and it's been working out great. In fact, I'd say this child has gotten a better, more focused education than the one who was in AAP.

My kid just finished with AAP, third through eighth grades. Maybe it was because he qualified for the program seven years back, but at that time there was no discussion among parents of who was or wasn't in the pool, no agonizing over GBRS or all these other alphabet soup tests, no attempts (that I ever heard from any parent) to re-test kids or appeal and appeal to get them into the pool, etc. I never heard of all that stuff until I looked on DCUM a few years ago; we were just told that our kid had qualified based on testing. Maybe it was because our base school was pretty remedial due to a lot of kids who needed help, but teachers basically encouraged kids who learned faster to get out and go to the AAP center if possible, period. Once our kid was at the elementary center, in four years I only encountered one set of parents I would really call "pushy" about their kid's academics, and yeah, they were a pain, but they weren't the norm. And I spent time in the school with some extracurriculars that were done mostly by the AAP students, and volunteering in classrooms, and I can recall maybe one kid over the years who had any attitude of superiority about being in AAP.

I wonder if, in the past six years or so, there has been a lot more focus on the qualifying testing, and parents have gotten more aggressive about getting kids into AAP come hell or high water or even moving house? ....We and other families we know well just didn't experience or hear about the whole hand-wringing DCUM stuff of "Where else can I get my kid tested" and "Is this score good enough" and "Should we move to get into this or that AAP center eventually" like I feel I see here all the time. It just wasn't our experience at all, so I wonder if it's a more recent thing among some parents to be pushy and encourage their kids to feel superior. My kid had six years of excellent teachers (I can only think of maybe one who was "checked out" and not trying; the rest were creative and took things beyond what I know general ed and even MS honors were doing) and peers who were overall nice kids. I guess it's down to the individual schools a child attends, and ours were ones where the teachers seemed engaged and our kid came home talking about some very creative things going on in the classrooms.

I don't disagree with PP that there surely are pushy parents and snotty kids in AAP, but it's not everyone, everywhere.

PP here. Our experiences may be different because our base school is a center. So it's all AAP, all the time. From K-2, the parents discuss it nonstop; who will get in (or not)? How are the teachers? Ad nauseum. The kids who remain in Gen Ed from 3-6 are treated like second class citizens. Parents will deny this happens, but it does - even though most of those Gen Ed kids are just as bright as those in AAP. The stark segregation in centers is really the worst of all worlds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You're not in the "wrong part" --- you're in the right part! Seriously, like you, AAP is not on the radar of 90%+ of the people in my kids' base school... and yet, somehow... they manage to live seemingly normal lives!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honors is open to all - it is in middle school. No math testing is needed in middle school, and it should be the same in elementary school.

VA should be more like NY. Regents and non-regents. One is harder material for those going to college. The other is more business focused for house going into technical training or non-college related fields of work.

GE is basically a wash for any high-achieving child. Any parent who has a hard-working child with smarts is going to push for AAP.

I had one child in AAP. Our second child is very bright and hard-working, but wasn't in-pool. We didn't push for AAP for this child because the whole system seems completely blown out of proportion - too many pushy parents, kids who think they're superior just because they got into AAP, and a whole lot of busy work. It would be great if Gen Ed was a more challenging curriculum, but after having one child go through AAP, we realized the AAP curriculum isn't what we had in mind (project after project isn't our idea of an "advanced curriculum"). We just decided to do a lot of supplementing at home and it's been working out great. In fact, I'd say this child has gotten a better, more focused education than the one who was in AAP.

My kid just finished with AAP, third through eighth grades. Maybe it was because he qualified for the program seven years back, but at that time there was no discussion among parents of who was or wasn't in the pool, no agonizing over GBRS or all these other alphabet soup tests, no attempts (that I ever heard from any parent) to re-test kids or appeal and appeal to get them into the pool, etc. I never heard of all that stuff until I looked on DCUM a few years ago; we were just told that our kid had qualified based on testing. Maybe it was because our base school was pretty remedial due to a lot of kids who needed help, but teachers basically encouraged kids who learned faster to get out and go to the AAP center if possible, period. Once our kid was at the elementary center, in four years I only encountered one set of parents I would really call "pushy" about their kid's academics, and yeah, they were a pain, but they weren't the norm. And I spent time in the school with some extracurriculars that were done mostly by the AAP students, and volunteering in classrooms, and I can recall maybe one kid over the years who had any attitude of superiority about being in AAP.

I wonder if, in the past six years or so, there has been a lot more focus on the qualifying testing, and parents have gotten more aggressive about getting kids into AAP come hell or high water or even moving house? ....We and other families we know well just didn't experience or hear about the whole hand-wringing DCUM stuff of "Where else can I get my kid tested" and "Is this score good enough" and "Should we move to get into this or that AAP center eventually" like I feel I see here all the time. It just wasn't our experience at all, so I wonder if it's a more recent thing among some parents to be pushy and encourage their kids to feel superior. My kid had six years of excellent teachers (I can only think of maybe one who was "checked out" and not trying; the rest were creative and took things beyond what I know general ed and even MS honors were doing) and peers who were overall nice kids. I guess it's down to the individual schools a child attends, and ours were ones where the teachers seemed engaged and our kid came home talking about some very creative things going on in the classrooms.

I don't disagree with PP that there surely are pushy parents and snotty kids in AAP, but it's not everyone, everywhere.

PP here. Our experiences may be different because our base school is a center. So it's all AAP, all the time. From K-2, the parents discuss it nonstop; who will get in (or not)? How are the teachers? Ad nauseum. The kids who remain in Gen Ed from 3-6 are treated like second class citizens. Parents will deny this happens, but it does - even though most of those Gen Ed kids are just as bright as those in AAP. The stark segregation in centers is really the worst of all worlds.

What grade is your child? In AAP or GE?

[Anonymous]

For the PP who lives in a center school, were you attracted to living in that school boundary because of the high Great Schools score or high test scores? If so, those scores are mostly because of the center. Centers are a double edged sword.

I'm not saying that's why you chose that school but I will see that in my DC'a center school, many base school parents brag about the great schoola score or how many kids pass advanced, yet they resent the center.

I get your point, though. I have aGE kid in a school with LLIV so I understand the issues.

[Anonymous]

Just separate the AAP kids into a different school of their own -- then no one feels like a small fry in their base school. OR improve the GE curriculum across the board. Either one would work for me!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:GE is still a college prep diploma. No reason not to go to college.

+1. Have kids in both programs in a McLean area elementary. AAP is implemented in all classes in most of these area schools as well as Vienna area schools. Principals will start implementing it in many other schools in future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the PP who lives in a center school, were you attracted to living in that school boundary because of the high Great Schools score or high test scores? If so, those scores are mostly because of the center. Centers are a double edged sword.

I'm not saying that's why you chose that school but I will see that in my DC'a center school, many base school parents brag about the great schoola score or how many kids pass advanced, yet they resent the center.

I get your point, though. I have aGE kid in a school with LLIV so I understand the issues.

I'm that PP. We moved to our neighborhood long before this school was even built. So at the time, when we first moved in, our base school was a completely different elementary school - the center came to us, not the other way around. Trust me - we would never have deliberately moved to a neighborhood with a center school, and our neighbors with Gen Ed kids feel the same way. It destroys all feeling of community in so many ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Class sizes should be inversely proportional to the "level"--say, 40 to 50 kids in AAP, 25-30 in Gen Ed, and no more than fifteen or lower as necessary for kids requiring remedial help.

Umm, no way. TRUE AAP requires significant differentiation and an understanding that gifted children learn differently than typical children. They often have MORE needs than gen ed students, so their classes should absolutely not be larger than gen ed classes.

[Anonymous]

That sounds like good idea, but parents would work to put their kids in these honors classes when they have no business being in them. It can be very mentally demoralizing being in a class with students that need no to little instruction/teaching of many or all subjects. We are constantly getting emails about teen and student depression and stress here. There is more to life than academic honors classes at 9 years old and also at 17 yrs old. Having a successful life also means creating more memories as a child than academics. My child is in AAP- she has no tutor and never has had a tutor. A mother the other day could not wrap her head around how my kid has never had a tutor. She said our kids teacher never taught them math this past school year and after spending hours nightly, they went back to a tutor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honors is open to all - it is in middle school. No math testing is needed in middle school, and it should be the same in elementary school.

VA should be more like NY. Regents and non-regents. One is harder material for those going to college. The other is more business focused for house going into technical training or non-college related fields of work.

GE is basically a wash for any high-achieving child. Any parent who has a hard-working child with smarts is going to push for AAP.

I had one child in AAP. Our second child is very bright and hard-working, but wasn't in-pool. We didn't push for AAP for this child because the whole system seems completely blown out of proportion - too many pushy parents, kids who think they're superior just because they got into AAP, and a whole lot of busy work. It would be great if Gen Ed was a more challenging curriculum, but after having one child go through AAP, we realized the AAP curriculum isn't what we had in mind (project after project isn't our idea of an "advanced curriculum"). We just decided to do a lot of supplementing at home and it's been working out great. In fact, I'd say this child has gotten a better, more focused education than the one who was in AAP.

Can you give an example of what you preferred in general ed to AAP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Class sizes should be inversely proportional to the "level"--say, 40 to 50 kids in AAP, 25-30 in Gen Ed, and no more than fifteen or lower as necessary for kids requiring remedial help.

Umm, no way. TRUE AAP requires significant differentiation and an understanding that gifted children learn differently than typical children. They often have MORE needs than gen ed students, so their classes should absolutely not be larger than gen ed classes.

"True" AAP left the building years ago. The bulk of the kids in AAP these days are no more gifted than my dog is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Class sizes should be inversely proportional to the "level"--say, 40 to 50 kids in AAP, 25-30 in Gen Ed, and no more than fifteen or lower as necessary for kids requiring remedial help.

Umm, no way. TRUE AAP requires significant differentiation and an understanding that gifted children learn differently than typical children. They often have MORE needs than gen ed students, so their classes should absolutely not be larger than gen ed classes.

"True" AAP left the building years ago. The bulk of the kids in AAP these days are no more gifted than my dog is.

Wow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That sounds like good idea, but parents would work to put their kids in these honors classes when they have no business being in them. It can be very mentally demoralizing being in a class with students that need no to little instruction/teaching of many or all subjects. We are constantly getting emails about teen and student depression and stress here. There is more to life than academic honors classes at 9 years old and also at 17 yrs old. Having a successful life also means creating more memories as a child than academics. My child is in AAP- she has no tutor and never has had a tutor. A mother the other day could not wrap her head around how my kid has never had a tutor. She said our kids teacher never taught them math this past school year and after spending hours nightly, they went back to a tutor.

So, in the example you just gave, this mother most likely pushed her child into AAP by appealing. How is that different than offering honors classes to all? If the child is having difficulty, the obvious solution would be to move back into a "regular" class. Having open honors classes wouldn't lock anyone in to taking an advanced curriculum if they were better suited for a regular curric. - and vice versa, which is perhaps even more important.

There is no reason AAP should be black or white, either/or. A child can be advanced in several subjects, but not all and should have the opportunity to take the correct level in every subject possible. Gen Ed kids students aren't given that opportunity, except for in advanced math. There should be the option for Gen Ed students to take advanced language arts, social studies, science, etc., as needed.