Seeking input on major addition with Case Design [DC]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We used case for our basement buildout which took two months. Not a company I would recommend. They were not reliable, the job was supposed to be the same 3-4 guys but we constantly had non- english strangers in and out, unannounced who were loud, used filthy language all day (while my kids and I were just upstairs).
It was a slow & excruciating experience.
Also, the work Area was to be tidied up each night and barriers built to contain dust-- that never happened. Nails were left all over As were dangerous Machinery/power tools. Dust was all over our entire house for two+ months. Most of our workers smoked like chimneys right outside our home, letting fumes in through the house. They urI aged outside, too, despite the bathroom provided by case. Never again.
The Managers were nice but never corrected the issues.

What a difference in experiences! We have had the same solid crew - except when they bring in plumbers, electricians etc. All polite and thoughtful. Each and everyday they broom, dust and vacuum the work area so its clean - in fact its cleaner than the rest of the house. Since the power tools are owed individually by the crew they are in their trucks each night and brought back to the work site daily. The drywall and Mason work has been some of the best work we have seen in all of our renovations we have done. Our team leader makes sure that the crew is respectful around our kids, they are expected to smoke by their trucks parked on the street.

[Anonymous]

OP here again. Seems like people have had very different experiences, which maybe isn't surprising given that Case is a big firm. Is there another design/build firm that people would recommend? Also, in response to the PP who asked why we want to go the design/build route rather than getting an architect, I've heard that architects are very bad at budgeting and often come up with plans that are too expensive to actually implement, but happy to hear other thoughts on this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone know if Case, and similar design-build firms, will work with IKEA kitchen cabinets?

Four Brothers does. They actually recommend that if you dont go with high end custom cabinets to use IKEA cabinets which they will customize as they put together. Say they are best alternative to the custome cabinets.

[Anonymous]

We are almost done with a very large renovation by Case. We have been pleased overall. If you are doing a big renovation, the key is getting a very strong and experienced project manager; second key is to get a top carpenter. There may be some variation in quality with a big company like Case, so ask to see other similarly-sized projects they have managed and speak with past customers. If your renovation is big enough and you can get Kevin Morrissey to PM it, I highly recommend him. He is very good at what he does.

Advice:

- It is very hard to know in advance what "options" you will add onto your project. For example, we did not even think about the fact that the insulation package that was included with our project, while up to code, was the minimum required to meet code, which is not the same thing as the minimum required for you to feel warm in the winter without blasting the heat. We didn't know that until we were told about possible "upgrades," which to us were not really options but pretty much required. It would be helpful to go through each of the major contract categories -- electrical, plumbing, trim, insulation, etc. -- well before you sign the contract to discuss what options you will be asked to consider so that you can decide in advance if they are actually options or if you will consider them mandatory.

- Ask for plenty of time to review the contract, and if you can afford it, get someone (consultant, lawyer, friend who has done a renovation) to review it in detail with you. There are dozens of things in there that we didn't notice when we signed, and partly that was because we were under serious time pressure to sign it. Tell Case in advance that you will need 10 business days to review the contract and that the contract price may not change before those 10 days are up. Then use them to go through everything and ask lots and lots of questions.

- Case was very open to adding provisions into the contract upon our request that we felt we wanted in there to protect us. They are a big company, but they are also very accommodating if you have requests that might modify the contract.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are almost done with a very large renovation by Case. We have been pleased overall. If you are doing a big renovation, the key is getting a very strong and experienced project manager; second key is to get a top carpenter. There may be some variation in quality with a big company like Case, so ask to see other similarly-sized projects they have managed and speak with past customers. If your renovation is big enough and you can get Kevin Morrissey to PM it, I highly recommend him. He is very good at what he does.

Advice:

- It is very hard to know in advance what "options" you will add onto your project. For example, we did not even think about the fact that the insulation package that was included with our project, while up to code, was the minimum required to meet code, which is not the same thing as the minimum required for you to feel warm in the winter without blasting the heat. We didn't know that until we were told about possible "upgrades," which to us were not really options but pretty much required. It would be helpful to go through each of the major contract categories -- electrical, plumbing, trim, insulation, etc. -- well before you sign the contract to discuss what options you will be asked to consider so that you can decide in advance if they are actually options or if you will consider them mandatory.

- Ask for plenty of time to review the contract, and if you can afford it, get someone (consultant, lawyer, friend who has done a renovation) to review it in detail with you. There are dozens of things in there that we didn't notice when we signed, and partly that was because we were under serious time pressure to sign it. Tell Case in advance that you will need 10 business days to review the contract and that the contract price may not change before those 10 days are up. Then use them to go through everything and ask lots and lots of questions.

- Case was very open to adding provisions into the contract upon our request that we felt we wanted in there to protect us. They are a big company, but they are also very accommodating if you have requests that might modify the contract.

OP here. Very thoughtful response -- thanks so much! Question about your "options/upgrades" point. Do you feel that Case intentionally didn't include items like better insulation as a bait-and-switch tactic? During our initial mtg the guy from Case emphasized how the proposed budget was based on the stuff people typically want in an affluent area rather than the cheapest possible option.

[Anonymous]

Yeah I'm surprised that a company that justifies their double and triple price point on the basis that they do exceptional quality work would only allocate/budget for the lowest end option. That would be a giant red flag to me.

[Anonymous]

Pp here -- I don't think they were deceptive at all. Case included the type of finishes we want. But I think there are certain areas where many people skimp or are fine with just doing something to code, and Case didn't include upgrades that they thought might be unnecessary or unwanted. I would rather they do that than include higher cost items without clearing it with us first.

I think the lesson is just to talk these things through before you sign so you know what assumptions they are making and have a chance to weigh in on them.

[Anonymous]

We did a major renovation house completed gutted down to studs, all new systems etc with meridian homes. Have been back in 10 months and couldn't be happier. They were on time on budget. I can still call with a misuse I get an immediate response. I am happy to talk off line.

[Anonymous]

Used Case Handyman service as a test run for a major kitchen redo and installation of new bathrooms. Suffice to say it was a nightmare that we exited quickly. Strange person in charge who seemed to know less about construction than I do (I am a non handy mom but I do know how to use Google to research basic issues). He was also not particularly reliable. And all quotes were crazy expensive - parts marked up multiple times what you could buy them for on the Internet. There are so many good firms ... Why use someone with solid rep for being above market in cost and with several reviews saying below market on quality and reliability?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Pp here -- I don't think they were deceptive at all. Case included the type of finishes we want. But I think there are certain areas where many people skimp or are fine with just doing something to code, and Case didn't include upgrades that they thought might be unnecessary or unwanted. I would rather they do that than include higher cost items without clearing it with us first.

I think the lesson is just to talk these things through before you sign so you know what assumptions they are making and have a chance to weigh in on them.

We also didn't anticipate the insulation - when we asked them they said without looking inside existing walls they assume its up to "code and sufficient." Once they started tear down and got a real look into the walls they realized our exterior walls did not have the code standard insulation. When we asked about the cost they showed us what the current code is for type (had to be blown) and level of insulation - its pricey. They were very transparent and willing to discuss and work with us. I agree take time and read through the contract - there were still areas that we could have known more about - for instance general lighting does not include lights in closets. They aren't required by code - and yet I wanted lights and switches in my closets. So that was an area of electrical that we opted for the "higher end" electrical package.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone know if Case, and similar design-build firms, will work with IKEA kitchen cabinets?

Four Brothers does. They actually recommend that if you dont go with high end custom cabinets to use IKEA cabinets which they will customize as they put together. Say they are best alternative to the custome cabinets.

How do you customize Ikea cabinets?

[Anonymous]

What about JLP? They seem to do most of the higher end jobs in the neighborhood and I’ve heard good things.

I had friends use case for several smaller projects. They were perfectly satisfied, but the designs were very mundane and quality and service was not so amazing to justify the extra $$$$$$$$$$$$

[Anonymous]

i have seen older relatives use case in bethesda and be happy. but its a very boomer aesthetic and for the money a poor value. they are economizing by scale by offering everyone the same repetoire of choices. i also find the design fees of design builds particularly galling. 18% to show me drawings of how my rowhouse kitchen can look when there are bascially 5 formulas that they've already done and are just slightly tweaking? no thanks.