Why a STEM major isn't the be-all...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the average kid, engineering is a great major because it is a high level vocational education choice, just like pharmacy or nursing. Most engineers are just smart mechanics. They build machines/processes and tinker and learn how to do it in a disciplined way. You need lots of engineers in a modern world, so most work on pretty routine stuff that doesn't require huge brainpower. That's why engineers from third rate colleges can still get jobs.

On the other hand, you need a first rate mind to be a good philosopher or historian or anthropologist. That's why it is generally a much better idea to study one of those fields at a top tier highly selective school, rather than a 2nd tier program. The sociology major from Southwest Arkansas State may well be pulling espresso for a living, but the Yale lit major won't.

Yup. Smart is smart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fareed Zakaria is not someone who has a lot of credibility given his record of plagiarism.

The reality is that as the economy changes the skill-set to be marketable will also change. Not to recognize this is to risk going the way of a dinosaur. Since we are paying for our children's college, we have made it clear to them that although we will not decide their major, we reserve the right to veto a major that we believe will not increase their potential for being gainfully employed after they finish college. We sure as hell are not going to spend $200K on getting them an education in some major that will not enhance their prospects for employment down the line.

Citing the examples of Zuckerberg, Gates and others is akin to arguing that one does not need a college education because these two individuals did just fine though they dropped out of college.

You are on a slippery slope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the average kid, engineering is a great major because it is a high level vocational education choice, just like pharmacy or nursing. Most engineers are just smart mechanics. They build machines/processes and tinker and learn how to do it in a disciplined way. You need lots of engineers in a modern world, so most work on pretty routine stuff that doesn't require huge brainpower. That's why engineers from third rate colleges can still get jobs.

On the other hand, you need a first rate mind to be a good philosopher or historian or anthropologist. That's why it is generally a much better idea to study one of those fields at a top tier highly selective school, rather than a 2nd tier program. The sociology major from Southwest Arkansas State may well be pulling espresso for a living, but the Yale lit major won't.

"just" tinkerers? Really?

Most English majors are just good readers who mastered the formula for writing assigned papers at a solid suburban high school. They work in "community outreach" at various non-profits, and learn how to do this in a respectful way while using proper grammar. You need a lot of these low-paid non-profit types in most cities, so most work on simple project management to satisfy the foundations that give grants to the non-profits. That's why English/sociology/psych/history majors from even top 50-SLACs and universities fill all these $24,500 a year outreach/project mgt. jobs in city throughout the US.

[Anonymous]

^^ You are all missing the point. This is not about English majors are better than Engineers, nah, nah, nah, nah-nah. The world needs both. The point is there is no reason to push for a person without the interest or aptitude for STEM -- or for English, for that matter -- to major in something because you think it will get you a job or you'll make more money.

Those decisions typically precede really interesting mid-life crises.

[Anonymous]

Yes, the world needs all kinds of thinkers and doers. Not everyone has to be STEM

[Anonymous]

We have five children - two became doctors and three ended up doing a MBA from one of the better schools.

All are well employed and happy in their careers. We are both physicians and, yes, I am more than willing to admit that we channeled them to pursue fields of study where they would be able to get well paying jobs.

We have no regrets ........ and I know they don't either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^ You are all missing the point. This is not about English majors are better than Engineers, nah, nah, nah, nah-nah. The world needs both. The point is there is no reason to push for a person without the interest or aptitude for STEM -- or for English, for that matter -- to major in something because you think it will get you a job or you'll make more money.

Those decisions typically precede really interesting mid-life crises.

I agree. And as someone in the IT field, people who don't honestly like IT generally aren't very good and don't last.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the average kid, engineering is a great major because it is a high level vocational education choice, just like pharmacy or nursing. Most engineers are just smart mechanics. They build machines/processes and tinker and learn how to do it in a disciplined way. You need lots of engineers in a modern world, so most work on pretty routine stuff that doesn't require huge brainpower. That's why engineers from third rate colleges can still get jobs.

On the other hand, you need a first rate mind to be a good philosopher or historian or anthropologist. That's why it is generally a much better idea to study one of those fields at a top tier highly selective school, rather than a 2nd tier program. The sociology major from Southwest Arkansas State may well be pulling espresso for a living, but the Yale lit major won't.

Do you even know any engineers? Probably not. Your argument is premised on a very narrow view of the world -- if you majored in history (as I did), you missed the opportunity to develop your imagination and empathy.

[Anonymous]

My sister majored in stem at a top school and is getting laid off tomorrow from a company who pays excellent and whose products you use daily.

She's a top performer and has been there less than three years.

STEM isn't a security blanket. Along with her another 100 devs are getting canned (she's not a dev).

This is just the tip of a massive hit that'll come down in sept.

No she's not at IBM.

STEM is a guarantee of nothing.

[Anonymous]

That article was clearly written by someone who understands nothing about science or engineering.

First of all, STEM is "science, technolology, engineering and math" all of which are different. Not just engineering. Equating the two is like saying that all humanities and social sciences are like English lit, even economics.

Second, the article assumes that STEM = rote memorization / drone work while humanities = creativity. That is total BS. Engineers invent, design, etc. and journalism can now often be done by a computer program.

If you want to debate the economics of STEM or whether it's wise to chose such majors if your heart isn't really in it, but this was the worst Fareed Zakaria article I've ever read. I used to think he was smart. Now he's just a click bait whore from what I can tell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My sister majored in stem at a top school and is getting laid off tomorrow from a company who pays excellent and whose products you use daily.

She's a top performer and has been there less than three years.

STEM isn't a security blanket. Along with her another 100 devs are getting canned (she's not a dev).

This is just the tip of a massive hit that'll come down in sept.

No she's not at IBM.

STEM is a guarantee of nothing.

My brother, with a STEM major, was laid off about three months ago after over ten years with the company. He received six months severance. He landed a job paying almost 20% more within a month of losing his job.

His secret: he made sure to keep up with the latest technological advances in his field. STEM does not offer any guarantees of stability. Keep up with changes in your field or you will no longer be marketable.

[Anonymous]

I am instantaneously skeptical of anyone who thinks being bad at tests means creativity. You can suck at both you know. At least the kids who get good grades are good at something. They have more room for creativity too, because they have real knowledge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My sister majored in stem at a top school and is getting laid off tomorrow from a company who pays excellent and whose products you use daily.

She's a top performer and has been there less than three years.

STEM isn't a security blanket. Along with her another 100 devs are getting canned (she's not a dev).

This is just the tip of a massive hit that'll come down in sept.

No she's not at IBM.

STEM is a guarantee of nothing.

Just like the genetics field, STEM jobs are slowly being moved to India.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sister majored in stem at a top school and is getting laid off tomorrow from a company who pays excellent and whose products you use daily.

She's a top performer and has been there less than three years.

STEM isn't a security blanket. Along with her another 100 devs are getting canned (she's not a dev).

This is just the tip of a massive hit that'll come down in sept.

No she's not at IBM.

STEM is a guarantee of nothing.

Just like the genetics field, STEM jobs are slowly being moved to India.

Some STEM jobs are being outsourced but if you have the right skills there is no problem getting a job. But one does have to stay on the cutting edge of changes if you want to remain marketable.