Discrimination in the IEP process?

[Anonymous]

I think the point is that the kids can't get the IEPs or the 504s in the first place even if they have a diagnosis and they are having trouble.

Lots of families have trouble arguing the finer points of an IEP and for this service and that but I think it's a very different thing to say they won't give anything.

Is the situation worse for Asian families in some schools? It could be. I really don't know but I think you're really ignorant to assume that isn't happening. People tend to be very PC about discrimination against African Americans and come to their defense but when it's about Asian Americans people seem to get up all in arms and say that's there's no way this is possible. I think that in itself is very racist.

Anonymous wrote:This is so insane.

I would say that roughly 99.9% of families with kids with IEPS experience "pushback" in the IEP process.

I have a severely disabled child -- motoric, speech, every single sphere -- and I experience "pushback" in the IEP process. I am currently fighting for several measures to be included in his IEP, with pushback galore. This happens every single year.

I'm NOT saying discrimination doesn't exist. But to blame pushback solely on discrimination? You'd have to be nuts.

[Anonymous]

Was your child having any issues in school due to his disabilities? We know of a lot of families with children with ADHD, speech issues and fine motor delays who have not bothered to ask for a 504 or IEP because their children are doing okay. Could they be doing better? Sure, probably, but that's a really hard sell to most SN teams.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, With full sympathy for your situation, asking a school to evaluate a child who may or may not have any issues is very different from asking them to evaluate a child who is known to have ASD or ADHD.

I'm the PP you're responding to. DS had already been diagnosed privately with ADHD as well as expressive/receptive speech delays and fine motor delays. The school refused to accept the outside evaluations and refused to conduct their own evaluations. We had to hire an advocate. So, no, I don't think FCPS is treating Asians any differently than white kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Was your child having any issues in school due to his disabilities? We know of a lot of families with children with ADHD, speech issues and fine motor delays who have not bothered to ask for a 504 or IEP because their children are doing okay. Could they be doing better? Sure, probably, but that's a really hard sell to most SN teams.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, With full sympathy for your situation, asking a school to evaluate a child who may or may not have any issues is very different from asking them to evaluate a child who is known to have ASD or ADHD.

I'm the PP you're responding to. DS had already been diagnosed privately with ADHD as well as expressive/receptive speech delays and fine motor delays. The school refused to accept the outside evaluations and refused to conduct their own evaluations. We had to hire an advocate. So, no, I don't think FCPS is treating Asians any differently than white kids.

Was my DS having issues in school due to his disabilities? Think for a minute.....if my DS was doing 'okay' why would we pursue private evaluations and initiate the IEP process? Because we thought it'd be fun and we liked dropping thousands of dollars on evaluations?

[Anonymous]

Why the strong reaction of some PPs that this kind of discrimination cannot be happening? Yes you may have gotten pushback during the IEP process for your non-Asian kid, but that doesn't mean there isn't a particular type of discrimination at play for older Asian kids trying to get IEPs. By definition, if you are not a parent of such a kid you don't know what these parents and kids are experiencing.

I generally find the parents on this forum (the SN board, not DCUM generally, obviously) to be very sensitive to issues of discrimination and people wrongly assuming they know what we are experiencing with our kids. So we should be sensitive to avoiding a knee-jerk reaction of "I feel confident that discrimination against XYZ group doesn't happen b/c I haven't experienced it first-hand."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Was your child having any issues in school due to his disabilities? We know of a lot of families with children with ADHD, speech issues and fine motor delays who have not bothered to ask for a 504 or IEP because their children are doing okay. Could they be doing better? Sure, probably, but that's a really hard sell to most SN teams.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, With full sympathy for your situation, asking a school to evaluate a child who may or may not have any issues is very different from asking them to evaluate a child who is known to have ASD or ADHD.

I'm the PP you're responding to. DS had already been diagnosed privately with ADHD as well as expressive/receptive speech delays and fine motor delays. The school refused to accept the outside evaluations and refused to conduct their own evaluations. We had to hire an advocate. So, no, I don't think FCPS is treating Asians any differently than white kids.

Was my DS having issues in school due to his disabilities? Think for a minute.....if my DS was doing 'okay' why would we pursue private evaluations and initiate the IEP process? Because we thought it'd be fun and we liked dropping thousands of dollars on evaluations?

Because OK to some parents is only getting A's and B's in honors classes. To other parents doing OK is getting C's in regular classes. To me doing Ok is being mainstreamed in some gen Ed classes with support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why the strong reaction of some PPs that this kind of discrimination cannot be happening? Yes you may have gotten pushback during the IEP process for your non-Asian kid, but that doesn't mean there isn't a particular type of discrimination at play for older Asian kids trying to get IEPs. By definition, if you are not a parent of such a kid you don't know what these parents and kids are experiencing.

I generally find the parents on this forum (the SN board, not DCUM generally, obviously) to be very sensitive to issues of discrimination and people wrongly assuming they know what we are experiencing with our kids. So we should be sensitive to avoiding a knee-jerk reaction of "I feel confident that discrimination against XYZ group doesn't happen b/c I haven't experienced it first-hand."

You lost me. According to the PPs, the schools make it difficult for the white kids to get IEPs. If the Asians are being treated the same as the white kids, how is it discrimination against the Asians?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why the strong reaction of some PPs that this kind of discrimination cannot be happening? Yes you may have gotten pushback during the IEP process for your non-Asian kid, but that doesn't mean there isn't a particular type of discrimination at play for older Asian kids trying to get IEPs. By definition, if you are not a parent of such a kid you don't know what these parents and kids are experiencing.

I generally find the parents on this forum (the SN board, not DCUM generally, obviously) to be very sensitive to issues of discrimination and people wrongly assuming they know what we are experiencing with our kids. So we should be sensitive to avoiding a knee-jerk reaction of "I feel confident that discrimination against XYZ group doesn't happen b/c I haven't experienced it first-hand."

You lost me. According to the PPs, the schools make it difficult for the white kids to get IEPs. If the Asians are being treated the same as the white kids, how is it discrimination against the Asians?

White parents don't know if their kids are being treated the same as Asians. It may be difficult for anyone to get an IEP but closer to impossible for an older Asian kid. I have no idea if this is true or not, I'm just pointing out that it's logically possible. It doesn't seem that anybody posting here has any first-hand knowledge of whether it's true or not.

[Anonymous]

I did intake at a center that does psych/educational testing. Many people would call each year looking to get testing for SAT accommodations on kids who had never been tested before. many decided against testing after the initial interview. It's not easy to get these accommodations without a well document history of LD. I don't recall any of these people being Asian, I think they were just typical Washingtonian high achievers.

[Anonymous]

Fwiw Asians are "under identified" in MCPS for special education services, the same way African Americans are "over represented" in special education in MCPS..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why the strong reaction of some PPs that this kind of discrimination cannot be happening? Yes you may have gotten pushback during the IEP process for your non-Asian kid, but that doesn't mean there isn't a particular type of discrimination at play for older Asian kids trying to get IEPs. By definition, if you are not a parent of such a kid you don't know what these parents and kids are experiencing.

I generally find the parents on this forum (the SN board, not DCUM generally, obviously) to be very sensitive to issues of discrimination and people wrongly assuming they know what we are experiencing with our kids. So we should be sensitive to avoiding a knee-jerk reaction of "I feel confident that discrimination against XYZ group doesn't happen b/c I haven't experienced it first-hand."

You lost me. According to the PPs, the schools make it difficult for the white kids to get IEPs. If the Asians are being treated the same as the white kids, how is it discrimination against the Asians?

White parents don't know if their kids are being treated the same as Asians. It may be difficult for anyone to get an IEP but closer to impossible for an older Asian kid. I have no idea if this is true or not, I'm just pointing out that it's logically possible. It doesn't seem that anybody posting here has any first-hand knowledge of whether it's true or not.

And Asian parents don't know if their kids are being treated the same as Asians. So, we are at a standstill. It is difficult period, especially at the Middle School level. Whether it is more difficult for one demographic or another requires a formal analysis of the data. All we have here - on both sides is anecdotal stories- not data. Keep in mind that the plural of anecdote is not data.

[Anonymous]

Reading this thread, I am feeling sick because we are in the process of trying to get a 504 for my middle school child and finding it impossible. Now I am kicking myself for not starting this process earlier. I had always had suspicions about something not being quite right (ever since he was 4 years old) but everyone around me told me he was fine. Especially with a husband who thought all of this was nonsense, that everyone has issues they just need to work around, an insurance co that refused to pay for anything because it was all educational, and a husband who balked at paying thousands on an evaluation. We finally got around to testing my child in 6th grade (because my husband finally acknowledged that there is something there). Now reading this thread, I am just sick because we're asians. You mean it's even harder to get an IEP or 504 if you're asian? If they see a spike in request for IEP and 504 at the MS or HS age by asians, I wonder if it has something to do with culture. Asians (like my husband) are not typically "in tune" to these 2e/special ed type of issues. It is really not something that is even acknowledged at all in Asia. Just as it was years ago in all countries. Who was every diagnosed with ASD or autism 20 years ago? So I can believe that they get around to diagnosing these things much later (unless the condition is severe). That was certainly our case.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous]Why should tnere be any push-back at all? Doesn't push-back fly in the face of the spirit and laws of the ADA and IDEA?


Bada bing! You win the Mensa prize of the day!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You have two issues here: schools can't serve everyone with an IEP due to lack of funding and resources, so they try to make sure the kids getting services really need them.

A lot of interventions a regular classroom teacher should be doing anyway.

The other issue might be that some parents are trying to get extra time on the SAT but the schools have no influence on that. The parents have to apply to the College Board and provide evidence that it is needed. It is very difficult to qualify for.

But not difficult once you have that 504 or IEP. Then it becomes much more simple. You might have to appeal for more time than say time and a half, but generally if you have an IEP for Autism, the SAT and ACT will give the student extra time depending on their need. If you don't agree with the amount of time given, you are allowed to appeal the deicsion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have two issues here: schools can't serve everyone with an IEP due to lack of funding and resources, so they try to make sure the kids getting services really need them.

A lot of interventions a regular classroom teacher should be doing anyway.

The other issue might be that some parents are trying to get extra time on the SAT but the schools have no influence on that. The parents have to apply to the College Board and provide evidence that it is needed. It is very difficult to qualify for.

We did not find this to be true. We applied last spring for this past fall's PSAT- to give us enough time to work things out if they balked. I dropped the form off at our school on a Friday, the school added their stuff and sent it out that afternoon. We received notification two week later in the mail. We received all that we asked (extra time, scribe and reader) for all College Boards tests included APs, SAT subject tests and SATs. FCPS.

But what was your diagnosis? If you are "on the autism specrum" (now including aspergers) you get the extra time without a fight. It's the ADHD kids that FCPS watch more carefully to make sure they aren't just trying to get extra time so they can excell at the standardized testing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have two issues here: schools can't serve everyone with an IEP due to lack of funding and resources, so they try to make sure the kids getting services really need them.

A lot of interventions a regular classroom teacher should be doing anyway.

The other issue might be that some parents are trying to get extra time on the SAT but the schools have no influence on that. The parents have to apply to the College Board and provide evidence that it is needed. It is very difficult to qualify for.

We did not find this to be true. We applied last spring for this past fall's PSAT- to give us enough time to work things out if they balked. I dropped the form off at our school on a Friday, the school added their stuff and sent it out that afternoon. We received notification two week later in the mail. We received all that we asked (extra time, scribe and reader) for all College Boards tests included APs, SAT subject tests and SATs. FCPS.

But what was your diagnosis? If you are "on the autism specrum" (now including aspergers) you get the extra time without a fight. It's the ADHD kids that FCPS watch more carefully to make sure they aren't just trying to get extra time so they can excell at the standardized testing.

We're not Asian but we were entering FCPS at 9th grade AND had an autism diagnosis and we still had to fight for the IEP every step of the way.