True "Neighborhood" Schools?

[Anonymous]

Hi, I'm 10:51, and I just wanted to clarify something about my 'commercial strip' comment. What I actually meant is, OP should check out whether the neighborhood has several "third place(s)" or not, ideally, in a strip close to the elementary school. Those are going to be the places where you constantly bump into your neighbors with kids, linger, and decide to have a potluck that night. The mere presence of commerce isn't enough -- it's got to be the right kind of commerce. So Starbucks + toy store + library = yes; dry cleaner + Roche Bobois + title company = no.

"The third place is a term used in the concept of community building to refer to social surroundings separate from the two usual social environments of home and the workplace. In his influential book The Great Good Place, Ray Oldenburg (1989, 1991) argues that third places are important for civil society, democracy, civic engagement, and establishing feelings of a sense of place.

Oldenburg calls one's "first place" the home and those that one lives with. The "second place" is the workplace — where people may actually spend most of their time. Third places, then, are "anchors" of community life and facilitate and foster broader, more creative interaction. All societies already have informal meeting places; what is new in modern times is the intentionality of seeking them out as vital to current societal needs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Place

[Anonymous]

Here is a snapshot of every AM on my block: all of the kids tramp up to school (Janney) and as they pass the houses, more kids come out and join the herd. There is always a couple of parents, but they are a happy troupe headed up there! I would love to send my son, but he is not cut out for a big school! I love the community feel...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is a snapshot of every AM on my block: all of the kids tramp up to school (Janney) and as they pass the houses, more kids come out and join the herd. There is always a couple of parents, but they are a happy troupe headed up there! I would love to send my son, but he is not cut out for a big school! I love the community feel...

Hi, this is a description of my neighborhood in Chevy Chase, MD. Huge herds of kids are tramping up Raymond Street every morning headed toward school. For the younger ones who take the bus to Rosemary Hills (K-2), bus stops usually often have 6+ kids w/ parents waiting and chatting in the AM/PM. My kids have many friends w/i a 1-3 block radius, and our neighborhood is safe enough that we allow walking alone to a friends house or to walk the dog for the elder one. There really is something about having a large volume of kids in the neighborhood that makes it "neighborhoody" to me.

As to "third places" in Chevy Chase, MD, there is a small commercial strip on Brookeville Road w/ a boutique grocery, pharmacy and coffee shop, etc. where we often run into neighbors, and we see many people on the Chevy Chase DC strip below Chevy Chase Circle and in various places in Bethesda. We also see other parents at frequent school events and neighborhood sports teams or the parks (Candy Cane City or Chevy Chase Park). Parents frequently invite other families over for dinner and do Halloween and Fourth of July parades, Xmas caroling, etc. together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi, I'm 10:51, and I just wanted to clarify something about my 'commercial strip' comment. What I actually meant is, OP should check out whether the neighborhood has several "third place(s)" or not, ideally, in a strip close to the elementary school. Those are going to be the places where you constantly bump into your neighbors with kids, linger, and decide to have a potluck that night. The mere presence of commerce isn't enough -- it's got to be the right kind of commerce. So Starbucks + toy store + library = yes; dry cleaner + Roche Bobois + title company = no.

"The third place is a term used in the concept of community building to refer to social surroundings separate from the two usual social environments of home and the workplace. In his influential book The Great Good Place, Ray Oldenburg (1989, 1991) argues that third places are important for civil society, democracy, civic engagement, and establishing feelings of a sense of place.

Oldenburg calls one's "first place" the home and those that one lives with. The "second place" is the workplace — where people may actually spend most of their time. Third places, then, are "anchors" of community life and facilitate and foster broader, more creative interaction. All societies already have informal meeting places; what is new in modern times is the intentionality of seeking them out as vital to current societal needs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Place

Original Murch poster, and this makes a lot of sense -- and I'd say the commercial strip across from Murch meets the criteria: bookstore/coffeehouse + drug/convenience store + family-friendly pizza joint. Tons of kids and families meeting and chatting, particularly at Politics & Prose and Comet. I'm on that strip often in the after school hours, and I always see lots of kids, often with parents, who clearly just got out of school and are stopping for a snack at the Modern Times Cafe, etc.

This discussion has been great for making me think about and appreciate my neighborhood (and also contemplate how to improve community) -- thanks, OP and other posters!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're still early in the process of deciding where to send our young children to school. We likely will go DCPS for elementary school, and that likely will mean moving in-boundary for one of the "usual suspects" in NW. We've scoured all the objective data, we've been on all the tours, and we've gotten a fair bit of subjective input as to the various schools' strengths and weaknesses. Where we still feel shaky is ascertaining how "neighborhood-y" the various neighborhoods are -- where do the parents all know each others' kids, and where can kids easily get themselves to school, their friends' houses, playgrounds, and other social centers?

It feels like the Lafayette and Janney neighborhoods are the most like Sesame Street in that regard. Murch feels carved up by big roads. Key and Mann feel both carved up by big roads and spread out. Eaton, Hyde, and Hearst all seem like neighborhoods conducive to the Lafayette/Janney feel, but have high enough OOB enrolments (~40% at Eaton, ~50% at Hyde, and ~80% at Heast, according to their respective principals) that we wonder how much is lost by not having the school really be central for the neighborhood. Oyster feels like it might have similar issues, but it has been tougher for us to get our arms around.

Are our perceptions generally consistent with reality, or are we off-base? Specific corrections and nuanced explanations would be very much appreciated -- TIA!!

We were at Eaton. Academics were mediocre. Parents and families were nice, but high OOB population means that the "neighborhoody" feeling was lost for us. Although kids had playdates, friends were often across town. There weren't very many kids in our immediate 3-4 block radius, which meant no one to walk to school with. Also, our experience was that while playdates happened, there was little socializing with parents and families outside of school events.

We moved to a different district, and the neighborhood feeling is great -- many many kids w/i a few block radius, playdates are all local, parents often invite another family over for dinner, kids can walk to school in big groups and to each other's houses. This was really "neighborhoody" for us. Kids are much happier and so am I.

To be clear, the lack of a neighborhood experience at Eaton was pretty much just due to a lack of enough in boundary kids (probably due to the fact that there aren't that many younger kids in the immediate area, and that many parents in Eaton district are very high income and send their kids to private schools in the Eaton district.) The out of boundary kids and parents were all very nice, but it was harder to make up for geographic disparity. We could have lived with the lack of neighborhoodiness if the academics worked for us, but they didn't so we left.

What district did you move to? And how do the academics compare with Eaton?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi, I'm 10:51, and I just wanted to clarify something about my 'commercial strip' comment. What I actually meant is, OP should check out whether the neighborhood has several "third place(s)" or not, ideally, in a strip close to the elementary school. Those are going to be the places where you constantly bump into your neighbors with kids, linger, and decide to have a potluck that night. The mere presence of commerce isn't enough -- it's got to be the right kind of commerce. So Starbucks + toy store + library = yes; dry cleaner + Roche Bobois + title company = no.

"The third place is a term used in the concept of community building to refer to social surroundings separate from the two usual social environments of home and the workplace. In his influential book The Great Good Place, Ray Oldenburg (1989, 1991) argues that third places are important for civil society, democracy, civic engagement, and establishing feelings of a sense of place.

Oldenburg calls one's "first place" the home and those that one lives with. The "second place" is the workplace — where people may actually spend most of their time. Third places, then, are "anchors" of community life and facilitate and foster broader, more creative interaction. All societies already have informal meeting places; what is new in modern times is the intentionality of seeking them out as vital to current societal needs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Place

Original Murch poster, and this makes a lot of sense -- and I'd say the commercial strip across from Murch meets the criteria: bookstore/coffeehouse + drug/convenience store + family-friendly pizza joint. Tons of kids and families meeting and chatting, particularly at Politics & Prose and Comet. I'm on that strip often in the after school hours, and I always see lots of kids, often with parents, who clearly just got out of school and are stopping for a snack at the Modern Times Cafe, etc.

This discussion has been great for making me think about and appreciate my neighborhood (and also contemplate how to improve community) -- thanks, OP and other posters!

I'd heard that Murch has a high OOB population (like 50%). Is that right? If so, how does it affect the "neighborhood-y" feel of the school, if at all?

[Anonymous]

I am a Murch parent and I do not beleive the percentage of OOB is that high. In my daughters K class of 24, 2 children live out of boundry. I know its a higher amount in the upper grades but it definitely is not a negative. I really doubt its 50% schoolwide.

[Anonymous]

I went to a tour at Murch last week. They said that currently about 25% of the students are out of boundary.

[Anonymous]

The percentage basis of OOB students increases in every grade, as more in-boundary kids leave Murch as they get older.

I have never been able to determine why this should be so for Murch, when it is not true for Lafayette, Janney, Mann and Key. at least not to the same extent.

[Anonymous]

Bump. Where do the kids leaving Murch go? Charters? Independents? I've heard that Mann drops dramatically in size at 3rd grade, Lafayette also, but less so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bump. Where do the kids leaving Murch go? Charters? Independents? I've heard that Mann drops dramatically in size at 3rd grade, Lafayette also, but less so.

Independents - St Alban's /NCS start at 4th grade

[Anonymous]

I agree about the Sesame Street effect of commercial strips, but disagree about the need for proximity to the ES. Adjacency is nice (and Janney has it), but the kid-orientation of the Chevy Chase strip (library, rec center, Budding Yogis, toy store, plus drugstore/grocery store/cleaners/Starbucks/PO/videostore for daily needs) means that local kids care constantly running into each other there. It's a common weekend and afterschool destination.

We live between the two areas in Friendship Heights and I see more parent interaction in T'town and more kid interaction in CC. That said, the return of the library (in two years) and the pool (this summer), means Tenleytown will have more and better kid-magnets (Middle C and the martial arts studio are the big draws now.)

[Anonymous]

oops, should qualify that kid vs. parent interaction. I was focussed on elementary school. There's lots of HS kid interaction in T'town. In that case, the Best Buy/Angelicos/Starbucks = big-kid-magnets. Some of the Deal kids also seem to hang in Starbucks. And, of course, AU students.