does prayer work? discuss

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, sometimes it can. In my opinion, at least. My mother at the age of 65, had late stage ovarian cancer with a tumor the size of a grapefruit. She was given less than 17 months to live by the preeminent Sloan Memorial Hospital.

She lived nearly 7 yrs. All that was done was 1) alternative treatment after chemo and 2) lots of group prayer.

The medical doctors scoffed at the idea that alternative treatment extended her life. But they didn't discount the power of prayer.

At the time our family prayed sometimes all night, every night, for months. ThenI felt quite strongly that she would live despite what the doctors were saying.

After 7 yrs though, she suddenly became ill and within a week she died. During this time, we all prayed hard, again. But this time, I felt quite strongly that God would be taking her. So our prayers were not granted. I believe that this time God decided He simply wanted her.

My MIL made a prayer group for my sick infant nephew. He died anyway. My MIL also thought that her prayer made her breast tumor go away. A mammogram confirmed she was wrong. Maybe it's just that God doesn't like my MIL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
in medical school, i took a course on religion and medicine and i remember one lecture on prayer, when a chaplain md spoke about his research into prayer; he showed that people (all adults, all in intensive care, all at same level of illness by mortality scores) who were prayed for were transitioned out of the ICU 2 days faster than those who weren't prayed for. it was a blinded study, so the patients and families and doctors did not know which patients were being prayed for an which were not. the prayers did not change death rates among the two groups. the prayer groups were not necessarily in the religion of the patient.

i have a friend who doesn't believe in God, but does believe in the power of prayer - she believes the strength of prayers is a real thing - a force - that can alter things.i thought of all this recently when i had two horrifyingly scary incidents - one where i almost crashed into a car and stopped short by about 2 inches and the second, where i was threatened by a man at a gas station in SE, where i unwisely stopped for gas.

I'm not terribly religious, but my mother and father both pray for me - in particular for my safety. And both times, I felt I "got away" b/c of their prayers. My mom immediately popped into my mind both times.

That said, I can't bear to believe that God works in our lives, choosing certain children to suffer and others to prosper.

Your thoughts?

This makes absolutely no sense. Sort of like all the "positive vibes" people ask for now, because they think they are too cool to ask for prayers.

or because they know or sense that some of their friends and family aren't religious and don't want to impose prayer on them, or because they really do just want people to be thinking of them and don't care if it's in the form of prayer to god or not. or because the ill person doesn't believe in prayer.

There are lots of non-pejorative reasons not to ask for prayer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, sometimes it can. In my opinion, at least. My mother at the age of 65, had late stage ovarian cancer with a tumor the size of a grapefruit. She was given less than 17 months to live by the preeminent Sloan Memorial Hospital.

She lived nearly 7 yrs. All that was done was 1) alternative treatment after chemo and 2) lots of group prayer.

The medical doctors scoffed at the idea that alternative treatment extended her life. But they didn't discount the power of prayer.

At the time our family prayed sometimes all night, every night, for months. ThenI felt quite strongly that she would live despite what the doctors were saying.

After 7 yrs though, she suddenly became ill and within a week she died. During this time, we all prayed hard, again. But this time, I felt quite strongly that God would be taking her. So our prayers were not granted. I believe that this time God decided He simply wanted her.

My MIL made a prayer group for my sick infant nephew. He died anyway. My MIL also thought that her prayer made her breast tumor go away. A mammogram confirmed she was wrong. Maybe it's just that God doesn't like my MIL.

Or God didn't like your nephew. Or God really liked your nephew and wanted another angel in heaven.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's called a triple blind study.

If you plan to be a doctor your job is to heal and to deal compassionately with family members. So you don't have to believe but you do have to understand that others do and their belief system is valuable.

There are lots of things that affect the outcome of patients like love, meditation, hope and prayer.

and proper diagnosis, treatment and compliance

[Anonymous]

I think prayer can help people calm down and find clarity, like meditation.

I don't think prayer results in miracles such as curing cancer. I mean, if it leads to medical miracles, then it's strange how narrow the range of miracles are -- why, for instance, has prayer never once resulted in the regeneration of an amputated limb? If god can can make a tumor disappear, surely he can make a limb reappear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, sometimes it can. In my opinion, at least. My mother at the age of 65, had late stage ovarian cancer with a tumor the size of a grapefruit. She was given less than 17 months to live by the preeminent Sloan Memorial Hospital.

She lived nearly 7 yrs. All that was done was 1) alternative treatment after chemo and 2) lots of group prayer.

The medical doctors scoffed at the idea that alternative treatment extended her life. But they didn't discount the power of prayer.

At the time our family prayed sometimes all night, every night, for months. ThenI felt quite strongly that she would live despite what the doctors were saying.

After 7 yrs though, she suddenly became ill and within a week she died. During this time, we all prayed hard, again. But this time, I felt quite strongly that God would be taking her. So our prayers were not granted. I believe that this time God decided He simply wanted her.

My MIL made a prayer group for my sick infant nephew. He died anyway. My MIL also thought that her prayer made her breast tumor go away. A mammogram confirmed she was wrong. Maybe it's just that God doesn't like my MIL.

Or God didn't like your nephew. Or God really liked your nephew and wanted another angel in heaven.

Or God wanted to see who you would cast blame on if He took away the baby.

[Anonymous]

I think a fundamental problem with some people who think God is cruel to let people die is that they think death is finite. If you can not believe in an afterlife, then certainly death is cruel and any God that takes a life is cruel. Giventhe millions of people who had near death experiences, however, and most of whom interpret it as proof of an afterlife, death is not finite and therefore not cruel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, sometimes it can. In my opinion, at least. My mother at the age of 65, had late stage ovarian cancer with a tumor the size of a grapefruit. She was given less than 17 months to live by the preeminent Sloan Memorial Hospital.

She lived nearly 7 yrs. All that was done was 1) alternative treatment after chemo and 2) lots of group prayer.

The medical doctors scoffed at the idea that alternative treatment extended her life. But they didn't discount the power of prayer.

At the time our family prayed sometimes all night, every night, for months. ThenI felt quite strongly that she would live despite what the doctors were saying.

After 7 yrs though, she suddenly became ill and within a week she died. During this time, we all prayed hard, again. But this time, I felt quite strongly that God would be taking her. So our prayers were not granted. I believe that this time God decided He simply wanted her.

My MIL made a prayer group for my sick infant nephew. He died anyway. My MIL also thought that her prayer made her breast tumor go away. A mammogram confirmed she was wrong. Maybe it's just that God doesn't like my MIL.

Or God didn't like your nephew. Or God really liked your nephew and wanted another angel in heaven.

Wow, I wish I had your understanding of complex issues of faith and motivation, also your awesome compassion. Not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think a fundamental problem with some people who think God is cruel to let people die is that they think death is finite. If you can not believe in an afterlife, then certainly death is cruel and any God that takes a life is cruel. Giventhe millions of people who had near death experiences, however, and most of whom interpret it as proof of an afterlife, death is not finite and therefore not cruel.

It just seems cruel when a defenseless baby is taken. or when multitudes die of a horrible disease a few hundred years before a cure is found for it. This is because people are not meant to understand the mind of God - until after they die, but God has left it to humans to interpret that mind of god to other humans who can't understand it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, sometimes it can. In my opinion, at least. My mother at the age of 65, had late stage ovarian cancer with a tumor the size of a grapefruit. She was given less than 17 months to live by the preeminent Sloan Memorial Hospital.

She lived nearly 7 yrs. All that was done was 1) alternative treatment after chemo and 2) lots of group prayer.

The medical doctors scoffed at the idea that alternative treatment extended her life. But they didn't discount the power of prayer.

At the time our family prayed sometimes all night, every night, for months. ThenI felt quite strongly that she would live despite what the doctors were saying.

After 7 yrs though, she suddenly became ill and within a week she died. During this time, we all prayed hard, again. But this time, I felt quite strongly that God would be taking her. So our prayers were not granted. I believe that this time God decided He simply wanted her.

My MIL made a prayer group for my sick infant nephew. He died anyway. My MIL also thought that her prayer made her breast tumor go away. A mammogram confirmed she was wrong. Maybe it's just that God doesn't like my MIL.

Or God didn't like your nephew. Or God really liked your nephew and wanted another angel in heaven.

Wow, I wish I had your understanding of complex issues of faith and motivation, also your awesome compassion. Not.

I've heard many times from Christians that when children are taken it means that God wanted another angel in heaven. It's meant to be comforting.

I heard people say it after the school massacre in Connecticut. What I don't get is why God couldn't have just put the kids to sleep with carbon monoxide or something, intstead of having them brutally shot by a madman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, sometimes it can. In my opinion, at least. My mother at the age of 65, had late stage ovarian cancer with a tumor the size of a grapefruit. She was given less than 17 months to live by the preeminent Sloan Memorial Hospital.

She lived nearly 7 yrs. All that was done was 1) alternative treatment after chemo and 2) lots of group prayer.

The medical doctors scoffed at the idea that alternative treatment extended her life. But they didn't discount the power of prayer.

At the time our family prayed sometimes all night, every night, for months. ThenI felt quite strongly that she would live despite what the doctors were saying.

After 7 yrs though, she suddenly became ill and within a week she died. During this time, we all prayed hard, again. But this time, I felt quite strongly that God would be taking her. So our prayers were not granted. I believe that this time God decided He simply wanted her.

My MIL made a prayer group for my sick infant nephew. He died anyway. My MIL also thought that her prayer made her breast tumor go away. A mammogram confirmed she was wrong. Maybe it's just that God doesn't like my MIL.

If God wanted a bunch of little angels at the same time, he also could have had the kids die quietly, for various different reasons, on the same day in different places and it wouldn't have seemed nearly as tragic. So maybe it was part of God's plan to make it seem more tragic to people. Perhaps he knew that if all the kids died in the same place, their bereaved parents would have more support or perhaps he wanted the children to already be acquainted with each other when they arrived in heaven.


Or God didn't like your nephew. Or God really liked your nephew and wanted another angel in heaven.

Wow, I wish I had your understanding of complex issues of faith and motivation, also your awesome compassion. Not.

I've heard many times from Christians that when children are taken it means that God wanted another angel in heaven. It's meant to be comforting.

I heard people say it after the school massacre in Connecticut. What I don't get is why God couldn't have just put the kids to sleep with carbon monoxide or something, intstead of having them brutally shot by a madman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, sometimes it can. In my opinion, at least. My mother at the age of 65, had late stage ovarian cancer with a tumor the size of a grapefruit. She was given less than 17 months to live by the preeminent Sloan Memorial Hospital.

She lived nearly 7 yrs. All that was done was 1) alternative treatment after chemo and 2) lots of group prayer.

The medical doctors scoffed at the idea that alternative treatment extended her life. But they didn't discount the power of prayer.

At the time our family prayed sometimes all night, every night, for months. ThenI felt quite strongly that she would live despite what the doctors were saying.

After 7 yrs though, she suddenly became ill and within a week she died. During this time, we all prayed hard, again. But this time, I felt quite strongly that God would be taking her. So our prayers were not granted. I believe that this time God decided He simply wanted her.

My MIL made a prayer group for my sick infant nephew. He died anyway. My MIL also thought that her prayer made her breast tumor go away. A mammogram confirmed she was wrong. Maybe it's just that God doesn't like my MIL.

[deleted, posted below]

Or God didn't like your nephew. Or God really liked your nephew and wanted another angel in heaven.

Wow, I wish I had your understanding of complex issues of faith and motivation, also your awesome compassion. Not.

I've heard many times from Christians that when children are taken it means that God wanted another angel in heaven. It's meant to be comforting.

I heard people say it after the school massacre in Connecticut. What I don't get is why God couldn't have just put the kids to sleep with carbon monoxide or something, intstead of having them brutally shot by a madman.

If God wanted a bunch of little angels at the same time, he also could have had the kids die quietly, for various different reasons, on the same day in different places and it wouldn't have seemed nearly as tragic. So maybe it was part of God's plan to make it seem more tragic to people. Perhaps he knew that if all the kids died in the same place, their bereaved parents would have more support or perhaps he wanted the children to already be acquainted with each other when they arrived in heaven.

[Anonymous]

Why do we humans need to find meaning in something tragic? I think it cheapens it. Shit happens. People die, sometimes in horrible, tragic circumstances. There's no silver lining there. Please stop trying to find one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do we humans need to find meaning in something tragic? I think it cheapens it. Shit happens. People die, sometimes in horrible, tragic circumstances. There's no silver lining there. Please stop trying to find one.

so where does god come in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do we humans need to find meaning in something tragic? I think it cheapens it. Shit happens. People die, sometimes in horrible, tragic circumstances. There's no silver lining there. Please stop trying to find one.

so where does god come in?

I don't know, but telling a parent another angel was wanted isn't going to make burying their child any easier.