Not being in Math 4/5?

[Anonymous]

Not sure how people don't know about this. I researched what options were out there for my good math student and confirmed at the teacher conferences in 3rd grade that my child was being tested.

I'm curious. Did your child's teacher propose that your child be tested? Or did you propose it in the teacher conference?

And when you say "teacher conferences" (plural), what do you mean? The one teacher conference scheduled in mid-October? So, in early fall of 3rd grade you asked about testing for math for 4th grade placement? Or do you routinely schedule additional teacher conferences, even when your "good math student" is not having any problems?

I feel like there is a game to be played with MoCo schools, but I don't know the rules. And my older child gets to be the experimental one. I know what to ask for my younger child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because if you don't have an older child or friends with older kids and it would never occur to you to do research that there are other options b.c MCPS says there is no differentiation, and no one has ever used the term "compacted math" before

Where does MCPS say that there is no differentiation?

Also, MCPS now has compacted math right there on the math curriculum web page:

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/math/math-curriculum-plan.aspx

in a diagram that looks a lot like the old Math Pathways chart, which it might also not have occurred to anybody to do research about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm curious. Did your child's teacher propose that your child be tested? Or did you propose it in the teacher conference?

And when you say "teacher conferences" (plural), what do you mean? The one teacher conference scheduled in mid-October? So, in early fall of 3rd grade you asked about testing for math for 4th grade placement? Or do you routinely schedule additional teacher conferences, even when your "good math student" is not having any problems?

I meant during the teacher conference days (you know, because the teacher meets with all the parents then). We only had one conference last year about that child, more with the other one who was struggling.

My son's teacher mentioned that he was being tested before I had the chance to ask about it. If she had not mentioned I would have asked.

[Anonymous]

I have a fifth grader in this program and am not thrilled with how they are implementing CM4/5 in our school. It seems like a lot of hoo ha just to make sure our student is "tracked" one level higher when she gets to MS. The fourth graders have to go to a nearby middle school for a one hour class before elementary school starts every day. Then the CM kids sit out in the hallway for an hour during the school day while the rest of the class does math, supposedly to do homework. But that takes five minutes, so what are they doing for the rest of the period?

For the fifth grade it's even more impactful to the school day. The kids take a bus to another ES during the morning, so the miss about 1.75 hours of in-class time in order to take a 60 minute class.

Honestly, I think the program is of dubious merit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not sure how people don't know about this. I researched what options were out there for my good math student and confirmed at the teacher conferences in 3rd grade that my child was being tested.

I know about compacted math and my child isn't even at MCPS (we live in MC but DC is in private school). MCPS did a big math curriculum presentation a while back - maybe a year an a half? - it was even televised on cable on the MCPS channel. They made a chart showing the various math tracks available under 2.0.

The chart is available in this "brochure" http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedfiles/curriculum/math/mathematics-program.pdf

And there is plenty of info via various links at this site: links http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/math/

That said, we have a "math kid" so "knowing" what is available out there for DC is "on our radar". I realize this might not be on the radar of others. But as a cautionary tale - for those of you that feel your school is especially poor about communication - browsing the MCPS website might give you some hints about some of those things you haven't asked about because "you didn't know to ask".

Of course, there will still be plenty you don't know about - I feel like every school has this problem to some extent or another. Schools are notorious for either assuming incorrectly that everyone already knows that....or being tight lipped to avoid having to discuss something they expect will ruffle the feathers of parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a fifth grader in this program and am not thrilled with how they are implementing CM4/5 in our school. It seems like a lot of hoo ha just to make sure our student is "tracked" one level higher when she gets to MS. The fourth graders have to go to a nearby middle school for a one hour class before elementary school starts every day. Then the CM kids sit out in the hallway for an hour during the school day while the rest of the class does math, supposedly to do homework. But that takes five minutes, so what are they doing for the rest of the period?

For the fifth grade it's even more impactful to the school day. The kids take a bus to another ES during the morning, so the miss about 1.75 hours of in-class time in order to take a 60 minute class.

Honestly, I think the program is of dubious merit.

Please organize parents and complain. Prior to C2.0, schools were able to figure out a way to provide this kind of differentiation within the school, and they should be able to do so again. Pre-c.20 it was really only the kids who were 3 years ahead in math that had to travel to another school. Under C2.0, the compacted 4/5/6 program is only 1 year ahead of grade level. It is crazy to me that MCPS can't figure out how to deal with that within each school.

Making kids go to another school means that many kids who could benefit are not opting for it. Making kids sit out in the hallway for a period is inappropriate. I guarantee you that some kids have IEPs or 504s which mean that they legally should not be doing that.

Being accelerated is not of "dubious merit" -- many kids benefit from this. Don't let the fact that MCPS runs a crappy program kill the program itself -- get them to fix it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks to the helpful PP(s) who posted the link to the curriculum and explanation. I have found the school's communication re compacted math to be dismal. As in: last year, I discovered the existence of compacted math from my 4th grade DD who mentioned that there was an advanced math class. No notification of the existence of this class to parents of children who were not selected.

My daughter is a good, solid math student (with several ESs in math topics on her report card and scoring advanced on standardized tests). No teacher has mentioned compacted math for her. I decided that I did not want to push it. I looked at the "standard" common core progression, and in my opinion, that actually *is* an accelerated track already! I was an advanced math student myself, above grade level in a competitive private school, and followed the exact progression of the standard common core track (AP Calc in my senior year). This was an appropriately challenging speed for me. I was a really good math student, but not headed to study math in college. I think that the number of students who are truly ready to do AP Calc in Jr year of high school are very few.

This year in my daughter's school, more than 1/4 of the class is in the compacted math class. It is the largest math class (by number of students). I'm feeling pretty comfortable with my daughter's placement at the moment. I completely understand/relate to the OP's concern. Lack of transparency by the school exacerbates those worries!

Thank you to everyone for their helpful postings. I also thought the "standard common core progression seemed accelerated. At least back in the stone age when I went to school, taking AP Calculus as a 12th grader meant you were accelerated and doing well in math. Happy my DD is in the standard progression. Just have to keep her there.

[Anonymous]

NP here. My kid is in 4th grade and just started "compacted" (4/5) math. Over 1/4 of her grade is in compacted math (in addition to the 6 or so kids who left to go to an HGC, who presumably are also in compacted math at the HGC). Based on these numbers, I did not think of the path as being that accelerated (if 25% of the grade is doing it ...). But sounds like I have the wrong impression from reading this thread. At a minimum I think that some schools must refer kids into compacted math with much greater frequency, such as my child's school. That doesn't seem fair to all.

[Anonymous]

20:54: 5th grade parent here. The first year of the selection, the test was given at home schools, but the decision was made a the MCPS level, looking at the test scores.

Different schools administered the test differently. Some schools administered to all children, some schools selected students based on their schoolwork. Some schools administered the first two portions to students and then decided, based on results, who should take remaining portions. The testing wasn't all at one time.

I was surprised at how low the MCPS score was on the test for kids to be accepted into the class. Don't know if they changed that for the 2nd year.

Personally, I've been underwhelmed with the compacted implementation. It crunches 3 years of the curriculum into 2, but it doesn't seem to dig deeper. My son is "fine" with most of it b/c he doesn't have to wait around as much to move on to the next concept. But he's not inspired by it. He's much more engaged with math at the dinner table, where his older brother loves to show off the latest thing he learned in Algebra.

[Anonymous]

You were hoping for both more depth and 50% more material?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:20:54: 5th grade parent here. The first year of the selection, the test was given at home schools, but the decision was made a the MCPS level, looking at the test scores.

Different schools administered the test differently. Some schools administered to all children, some schools selected students based on their schoolwork. Some schools administered the first two portions to students and then decided, based on results, who should take remaining portions. The testing wasn't all at one time.

I was surprised at how low the MCPS score was on the test for kids to be accepted into the class. Don't know if they changed that for the 2nd year.

Personally, I've been underwhelmed with the compacted implementation. It crunches 3 years of the curriculum into 2, but it doesn't seem to dig deeper. My son is "fine" with most of it b/c he doesn't have to wait around as much to move on to the next concept. But he's not inspired by it. He's much more engaged with math at the dinner table, where his older brother loves to show off the latest thing he learned in Algebra.

My understanding (also have a 5th grader) is that the testing was very rigorous and that that wasn't apparent from the score (the last question in particular almost no one got right, but they received points for various steps.

Does anyone know whether the test was revised after the first year? I was surprised that such a large number of kids got in from our home school last year.

[Anonymous]

20:54: 5th grade parent here. The first year of the selection, the test was given at home schools, but the decision was made a the MCPS level, looking at the test scores.

Different schools administered the test differently. Some schools administered to all children, some schools selected students based on their schoolwork. Some schools administered the first two portions to students and then decided, based on results, who should take remaining portions. The testing wasn't all at one time.

I was surprised at how low the MCPS score was on the test for kids to be accepted into the class. Don't know if they changed that for the 2nd year.

PP, thanks for this information. Do you mind telling us how you learned this? Do you know if parents were notified that their students were being tested?

I hate to say this, but I have to wonder if there has been some gender or racial bias in who was selected for testing. Why the heck didn't they just give the same test to every kid?

[Anonymous]

At my school there are only 10-12 kids in compacted math for the 4th grade. More kids may have gotten in but lots of parents say no b/c of the bussing to the local middle school.

[Anonymous]

Our of curiosity how are the middle schools offering compacted math 4/5 and 5/6. Under 2.0 there should be anything below grade level 6 offered to students in middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

20:54: 5th grade parent here. The first year of the selection, the test was given at home schools, but the decision was made a the MCPS level, looking at the test scores.

Different schools administered the test differently. Some schools administered to all children, some schools selected students based on their schoolwork. Some schools administered the first two portions to students and then decided, based on results, who should take remaining portions. The testing wasn't all at one time.

I was surprised at how low the MCPS score was on the test for kids to be accepted into the class. Don't know if they changed that for the 2nd year.

PP, thanks for this information. Do you mind telling us how you learned this? Do you know if parents were notified that their students were being tested?

I hate to say this, but I have to wonder if there has been some gender or racial bias in who was selected for testing. Why the heck didn't they just give the same test to every kid?

It is my understanding that part of the evaluation is how the kids have done in class and that is why they don't test everyone.