Two of DCPS's biggest challenges going forward

[Anonymous]

23:39, I'm not the one you were responding to but special ed IS seriously messed up in DC. That's why the district has been used so many times, why so many SN kids are in private placement, which has been necessary since DCPS failed to meet IDEA legal requirements. And that drives up the average cost of education mentioned upthread but doesn't provide additional $ to general ed kids. And now DCPS is fighting private placements left and right but still not providing legally required services.

So yes it's a huge problem.

- mother of student with special needs

[Anonymous]

Used should be sued. Phone autocorrect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:23:39, I'm not the one you were responding to but special ed IS seriously messed up in DC. That's why the district has been used so many times, why so many SN kids are in private placement, which has been necessary since DCPS failed to meet IDEA legal requirements. And that drives up the average cost of education mentioned upthread but doesn't provide additional $ to general ed kids. And now DCPS is fighting private placements left and right but still not providing legally required services.

So yes it's a huge problem.

- mother of student with special needs

Maybe I misunderstood the question. I thought the original question was about biggest challenges to improving schools overall and raising student success. I totally agree that DCPS has some Special Ed problems and that services to Special Needs students aren't what they need to be. And I fully agree that that should be corrected.

But I would not agree that that is what overall is holding DCPS from competing for students with charters, or what is holding back overall student success the most. That's the question I was answering, but if the original question is more general, i.e. "What are challenges overall for DCPS" then I see your point.

I thought the original question was about what is holding DCPS back from being, all over DC, schools that everyone wants to send their kids to. I can see the SN issue as a major issue for many, but it's not the reason most people don't want their kids to attend their neighborhood school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the challenges are:
1. The teachers union- they rather flex their muscle to keep the status quo than focus on educating the kids. Teachers can come in late and sleep during class and you can't get rid of them. Charters don't tolerate this BS.

Not true. DCPS teachers work hard to compensate for the next 3 items which are things that charters don't have to deal with.

2. Indifferent parents. This label is applicable to single moms from the hood and/or affluent gentrifiers who don't get involved.

Very true

3.Lackluster blase' programs. I want dual language expeditionary learning. A charter offers this and a dual-by-default Tools of the Mind afterthought can't compete.

Very true

4. Too many kids that need extra- poor SES that need extra services to get them up to basic par, too many kids that need ESOL, too many kids that need IEPs etc... We didn't have all of this baloney back in the day. Everyone's "right" to everything for free is collapsing the system.

Very, very true.
People need to get honest and/or wake up.

Damn poor people, just make them go away, it will be so much better if they could disapear. Wow, now I feel better.

You liberals with your heads in the clouds are also what's collapsing the system. It's awful that people are poor. Now. Feel better? Back to reality. Their needs which grow exponentially because liberals enable them is collapsing the system. We'll all suffer then- including your precious snowflakes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You liberals with your heads in the clouds are also what's collapsing the system. It's awful that people are poor. Now. Feel better? Back to reality. Their needs which grow exponentially because liberals enable them is collapsing the system. We'll all suffer then- including your precious snowflakes.

It's always interesting to see people who obviously have no idea whatsoever what they're talking about yet are so sure of their positions. If you take a few minutes to learn about the actual public policy issues facing DCPS (get "back to reality"), you'll realize that improving schools and providing effective early childhood services REDUCES the need for future government services. Kids who finish school are less likely to end up in prison and more likely to spend their lives paying taxes. Kids who have special needs detected and addressed early need fewer services over the course of their lives and are better positioned to work and be productive.

I know for some people it's fun to say childish things like "the problems are from the 47% who are takers" based on absolutely no information, and that's now what passes for serious political discussion in this country. But it really is high time to put away these childish things. As grownups, we need to soberly look at policy choices and figure out what's best for our kids, our neighbors and our country, not merely repeat talking points and slogans in order to wrap our ignorance and selfishness in self satisfied pride.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You liberals with your heads in the clouds are also what's collapsing the system. It's awful that people are poor. Now. Feel better? Back to reality. Their needs which grow exponentially because liberals enable them is collapsing the system. We'll all suffer then- including your precious snowflakes.

It's always interesting to see people who obviously have no idea whatsoever what they're talking about yet are so sure of their positions. If you take a few minutes to learn about the actual public policy issues facing DCPS (get "back to reality"), you'll realize that improving schools and providing effective early childhood services REDUCES the need for future government services. Kids who finish school are less likely to end up in prison and more likely to spend their lives paying taxes. Kids who have special needs detected and addressed early need fewer services over the course of their lives and are better positioned to work and be productive.

I know for some people it's fun to say childish things like "the problems are from the 47% who are takers" based on absolutely no information, and that's now what passes for serious political discussion in this country. But it really is high time to put away these childish things. As grownups, we need to soberly look at policy choices and figure out what's best for our kids, our neighbors and our country, not merely repeat talking points and slogans in order to wrap our ignorance and selfishness in self satisfied pride.

You are absolutely correct PP. It's shameful but such a dangerous reality that people like the PP you are responding to have fora and resources to keep spreading ridiculous misinformation (like blaming liberals and getting it totally wrong what actually happens with low-income communities). And the craziest part is they think they know what they're talking about, even though nothing in reality supports their overly simplistic and WRONG views. Well, nothing except other similarly "blame the poor and the liberals"-minded people.

[Anonymous]

Crime in the city, failing schools

[Anonymous]

I think the greatest challenge to DCPS and public school systems across the country is No Child Left Behind. The evidence is prima facie: allocating resources based on high-stakes testing puts a serious bind on schools dealing with socioeconomic factors way beyond their control.

Schools that do well are the ones with the autonomy and flexibility to address the needs of students who attend. That means giving principals, and especially teachers, more room to assess what those needs are and create the solutions to meet them. But under NCLB, the more challenges in your student population, the more limits are placed on your ability to innovate instruction and pivot from programming prescribed by some policy maker who's at 3,000 feet - not on the ground and at the desk side of students who need the most help.

Accountability standards require schools to show Annual Yearly Progress, aka AYP, and there's nothing wrong with putting such standards in place. But the problem comes with the response to a school's ability to meet those standards. Slide 6 in OSSE's Accountability Classification Overview ( http://osse.dc.gov/publication/dc-osse-accountability-classification-overview ) shows what happens to schools that don't meet goals for Annual Yearly Progress. They get lower autonomy and lower flexibility in their use of funds. So a "priority" school has no choice but to dedicate resources to what's prescribed by an authority outside that school. Meanwhile, "rising" and "reward" schools have the ability to bring in staff, programming and extracurricular experience that make learning what it should, can and needs to be: interesting, fun, exciting and - most of all - rewarding.

You want kids to find reward in going to school. But in lower-SES areas, the environment is nothing but drudgery and punishment. The facilities are dilapidated, the staff are demoralized, and everything about the environment tells a student "this shitty place where you're forced to show up everyday is exactly what you deserve because you simply cannot learn." Kids as young as second grade know and internalize the label "FAILING."

We need to abolish NCLB and give educators the flexibility and resources they need to create environments where kids are expected to learn, where they can learn, and where learning leads to productive and rewarding citizenship in our society. NCLB does nothing but punish students AND educators who can't meet a one-size-fits-all standard.

An exacerbating factor is our culture's belief that failure is a result of "values." Poor people don't value education, don't want to learn, don't want to succeed, don't want to be good citizens, don't want to work, don't want to pay bills, don't want to take care of themselves in any way shape or form. This is something repeated over and over on this forum: that success is the result of binary decision making - if your life sucks, it's because you made the wrong decisions.

But education should be about expanding choices. Not every parent is able to expand those choices, which is why precisely why public education needs to step in and provide that bridge from poor circumstances to - at the very least - survivable outcomes. Public education has always about creating and training a workforce. We went astray when we decided it was about who deserves to get ahead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not going to make any excuses for DCPS's poor performance in educating children over the past decades

You lost me with this outrageous statement

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the greatest challenge to DCPS and public school systems across the country is No Child Left Behind. The evidence is prima facie: allocating resources based on high-stakes testing puts a serious bind on schools dealing with socioeconomic factors way beyond their control.

Schools that do well are the ones with the autonomy and flexibility to address the needs of students who attend. That means giving principals, and especially teachers, more room to assess what those needs are and create the solutions to meet them. But under NCLB, the more challenges in your student population, the more limits are placed on your ability to innovate instruction and pivot from programming prescribed by some policy maker who's at 3,000 feet - not on the ground and at the desk side of students who need the most help.

Accountability standards require schools to show Annual Yearly Progress, aka AYP, and there's nothing wrong with putting such standards in place. But the problem comes with the response to a school's ability to meet those standards. Slide 6 in OSSE's Accountability Classification Overview ( http://osse.dc.gov/publication/dc-osse-accountability-classification-overview ) shows what happens to schools that don't meet goals for Annual Yearly Progress. They get lower autonomy and lower flexibility in their use of funds. So a "priority" school has no choice but to dedicate resources to what's prescribed by an authority outside that school. Meanwhile, "rising" and "reward" schools have the ability to bring in staff, programming and extracurricular experience that make learning what it should, can and needs to be: interesting, fun, exciting and - most of all - rewarding.

You want kids to find reward in going to school. But in lower-SES areas, the environment is nothing but drudgery and punishment. The facilities are dilapidated, the staff are demoralized, and everything about the environment tells a student "this shitty place where you're forced to show up everyday is exactly what you deserve because you simply cannot learn." Kids as young as second grade know and internalize the label "FAILING."

We need to abolish NCLB and give educators the flexibility and resources they need to create environments where kids are expected to learn, where they can learn, and where learning leads to productive and rewarding citizenship in our society. NCLB does nothing but punish students AND educators who can't meet a one-size-fits-all standard.

An exacerbating factor is our culture's belief that failure is a result of "values." Poor people don't value education, don't want to learn, don't want to succeed, don't want to be good citizens, don't want to work, don't want to pay bills, don't want to take care of themselves in any way shape or form. This is something repeated over and over on this forum: that success is the result of binary decision making - if your life sucks, it's because you made the wrong decisions.

But education should be about expanding choices. Not every parent is able to expand those choices, which is why precisely why public education needs to step in and provide that bridge from poor circumstances to - at the very least - survivable outcomes. Public education has always about creating and training a workforce. We went astray when we decided it was about who deserves to get ahead.

NCLB and RTTP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Crime in the city, failing schools

define failing schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the greatest challenge to DCPS and public school systems across the country is No Child Left Behind. The evidence is prima facie: allocating resources based on high-stakes testing puts a serious bind on schools dealing with socioeconomic factors way beyond their control.

Schools that do well are the ones with the autonomy and flexibility to address the needs of students who attend. That means giving principals, and especially teachers, more room to assess what those needs are and create the solutions to meet them. But under NCLB, the more challenges in your student population, the more limits are placed on your ability to innovate instruction and pivot from programming prescribed by some policy maker who's at 3,000 feet - not on the ground and at the desk side of students who need the most help.

Accountability standards require schools to show Annual Yearly Progress, aka AYP, and there's nothing wrong with putting such standards in place. But the problem comes with the response to a school's ability to meet those standards. Slide 6 in OSSE's Accountability Classification Overview ( http://osse.dc.gov/publication/dc-osse-accountability-classification-overview ) shows what happens to schools that don't meet goals for Annual Yearly Progress. They get lower autonomy and lower flexibility in their use of funds. So a "priority" school has no choice but to dedicate resources to what's prescribed by an authority outside that school. Meanwhile, "rising" and "reward" schools have the ability to bring in staff, programming and extracurricular experience that make learning what it should, can and needs to be: interesting, fun, exciting and - most of all - rewarding.

You want kids to find reward in going to school. But in lower-SES areas, the environment is nothing but drudgery and punishment. The facilities are dilapidated, the staff are demoralized, and everything about the environment tells a student "this shitty place where you're forced to show up everyday is exactly what you deserve because you simply cannot learn." Kids as young as second grade know and internalize the label "FAILING."

We need to abolish NCLB and give educators the flexibility and resources they need to create environments where kids are expected to learn, where they can learn, and where learning leads to productive and rewarding citizenship in our society. NCLB does nothing but punish students AND educators who can't meet a one-size-fits-all standard.

An exacerbating factor is our culture's belief that failure is a result of "values." Poor people don't value education, don't want to learn, don't want to succeed, don't want to be good citizens, don't want to work, don't want to pay bills, don't want to take care of themselves in any way shape or form. This is something repeated over and over on this forum: that success is the result of binary decision making - if your life sucks, it's because you made the wrong decisions.

But education should be about expanding choices. Not every parent is able to expand those choices, which is why precisely why public education needs to step in and provide that bridge from poor circumstances to - at the very least - survivable outcomes. Public education has always about creating and training a workforce. We went astray when we decided it was about who deserves to get ahead.

Wholeheartedly agree with you X 100!

[Anonymous]

One word for the biggest problem facing DCPS: Poverty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One word for the biggest problem facing DCPS: Poverty.

But this isn't the only school district with a large portion of high poverty students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One word for the biggest problem facing DCPS: Poverty.

But this isn't the only school district with a large portion of high poverty students.

Show me one with good results.