Design build and architect, recommendations

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of design build firms with high quality experienced architects. Not all D/Bs are build to model. We're using a small architect/D/B that only runs 2-3 jobs at a time and has done some sort of renovation/addition on dozens of homes in our vicinity.

Having him plugged into everything, along with knowing his crew is 100% dedicated to our job (every day, rain or shine) is super comforting. I'd guess I'm spending ~15% more than I would have going with a GC and trying to run in myself, but at the same time working with a vertically integrated firm has ensured that there are no cost overruns or delays, and we know that the quality, attention to detail, and consistency will be there when we're done.

If you've got time and enough experience (ie, knowing when corners are being cut or a GC is f'ing up) as well as the willingness to play the heavy, you can probably save $ with an architect + unaffiliated GC. But if you're in the $300k range already, you might have more peace of mind with a top notch D/B.

It's not the experience of the architect with design build that is the issue, it's the fact that if the architect works for the contractor you don't have third party quality control.

That's why you use a firm where the builders work for the architects.

[Anonymous]

We did a 220K renovation and paid 5K for architectural plans. Our builder gave us the name of the architect. He was awesome and owns his own construction company in MD. We are in Arlington for what it's worth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We did a 220K renovation and paid 5K for architectural plans. Our builder gave us the name of the architect. He was awesome and owns his own construction company in MD. We are in Arlington for what it's worth.

Care to share your builder's info. TIA

[Anonymous]

For an architect's fee of 15%, you should expect detailed plans, including interior elevations and electrical, mechanical and plumbing plans, preparation of documents needed for permitting, preparation of bid documents, regular site meetings during construction and review and approval of the contractor's request for payments.

If your project is pretty standard for your neighborhood, you might be able to save some bucks by going Design/Build. Will you be living in the house during construction? That let's you keep an eye on things day to day. It also helps to be able to read plans well enough to catch any flagrant mistakes early.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our architect was 9% but he said in DC he charges more...not sure if it is the rich folk premium or there is something special about dc...anyway, you say you want it to not look like an addition but have it be natural. You want an architect. Design build is great if you don't particularly care about look but only focus on function.

Dealing with the DC building and permitting offices are much more time consuming for the architect than other jurisdictions. The architect's responsibility is to get a permit based on their construction documents and if they have to do more work to fulfil the requirements for DC they are going to charge the client for it some way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of design build firms with high quality experienced architects. Not all D/Bs are build to model. We're using a small architect/D/B that only runs 2-3 jobs at a time and has done some sort of renovation/addition on dozens of homes in our vicinity.

Having him plugged into everything, along with knowing his crew is 100% dedicated to our job (every day, rain or shine) is super comforting. I'd guess I'm spending ~15% more than I would have going with a GC and trying to run in myself, but at the same time working with a vertically integrated firm has ensured that there are no cost overruns or delays, and we know that the quality, attention to detail, and consistency will be there when we're done.

If you've got time and enough experience (ie, knowing when corners are being cut or a GC is f'ing up) as well as the willingness to play the heavy, you can probably save $ with an architect + unaffiliated GC. But if you're in the $300k range already, you might have more peace of mind with a top notch D/B.

We had a similar experience and are very happy with the outcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a GC from out of the area. I also work in an expensive area. While the percentage can be misleading I think out of the gate it is high. The one variable is how much will the architect be detailing. For 12-14% I would expect to see significant interior elevations, especially for the master bath and the kitchen. I do not know if you were planning on going custom kitchen or not. At 300k budget I suspect not. If no custom kitchen, I would not step up to 12-14%. But if all custom and he/she will be detailing kitchen, tile layout in master bath, shower, etc. I real set of high end plans than I'd be more likely to say ok. My gut tells me you should be able to buy it for about 8% which is about 25k - that's a nice budget and a nice job for an architect.

With respect to the Architect vs Design Build. I do both. I will admit that I often get frustrated by the public's notion that you need someone to protect you from builder. Historically, there was a concept of a master builder, who did both. It was his job. How come no one ever asks who is protecting you from the architect ? I also have a hard time with architects who espouse the bid process, esp. those that tout it as a way of saving their clients money (and a way for them to claim they paid for themselves.) I believe the bid process creates an adversarial relationship. And often rewards the disingenuous.

I also know for your type additions I have had architects tell me they are problematic jobs for them. Too much detail (kitchen and bath details) without enough tonnage (spend) to make their percentages work. It is one reason you see design build firms in the kitchen and bath space. My ideal job for design build is what I call a kitchen bumpout - new kitchen, mudroom, breakfast room, patio, laundry, etc. Often they are in the 400-600k range and are highly detailed jobs. An architect has a hard time competing because they will often out source the kitchen layout to a kitchen designer - problem is it is a kitchen centric addition. So out of the gate their process is flawed. And as I can source hand made cabinets from a couple of "white label" cabinet guys I can make money on the cabinets and the construction so I don't have to kill you on the drawings - and truth be told most design build firms have a good architects they use - most often women who spent considerable time at prestigious firms and never made partner because of the mommy track. But rhere is a mistrust of builders - sometimes I can't help but wonder if that is not because of the bid process where we are forced to compete for work on price to pay for the real fox in the hen house.

So weird. I swear I read almost the exact same post on here a few weeks ago, right down to the mommytracked architects. Anyone else?

[Anonymous]

Any recent recommendations rations for design and build firms?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our architect was 9% but he said in DC he charges more...not sure if it is the rich folk premium or there is something special about dc...anyway, you say you want it to not look like an addition but have it be natural. You want an architect. Design build is great if you don't particularly care about look but only focus on function.

Dealing with the DC building and permitting offices are much more time consuming for the architect than other jurisdictions. The architect's responsibility is to get a permit based on their construction documents and if they have to do more work to fulfil the requirements for DC they are going to charge the client for it some way.

When we did our renovation 2 years ago, we found this not to be true if you do the permit processing as a homeowner. THe architect provided us the detailed drawings, i made the copies necessary and took them down to the DC planning office. They have a special office for homeowner permits which is more pleasant than for professionals. It took a couple of hours (we needed electrical, plumbing, construction permits). Worst part was paying the fees!