Can being the no. 1 student from TJ graduating class serve as a hook to top 10 universities?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You folks don't really get how admissions works at the top universities. They don't care about valedictorians. They are looking for that "special something" and it's usually not something on paper.

I interview for one of the "holy grail" universities, and I have excellent "smell sense" for who's actually going to get in, and they don't look any different on paper from the others. Many times they don't look as fabulous on paper as others do. They are interesting kids who are interested in stuff. No one cares if they're number 1 or number 50 at TJ.

You're pushing your kids so hard. Please stop. I get depressed after some of these interviews -- I want to hug the kids and tell them it's going to be okay and some day they'll actually figure out who they are and it's okay not to know. It's okay to let your guard down. It's okay to not be doing worthy stuff every minute of every day. It's okay just to be.

+100 Some stuff we seem to have forgotten. Well said.

[Anonymous]

"No one cares if they're number 1 or number 50 at TJ."

I find above statement hard to believe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"No one cares if they're number 1 or number 50 at TJ."

I find above statement hard to believe.

Believe it, because it is the truth. Or at least it was true a few years ago when my student graduated from the school. We never got an impression that ranking of students was done in any manner at any time. The students were very unique in their personalities and talents, but nearly all of them were incredibly high caliber. The only student who would stand out would be the one who struggled or lost interest/motivation in school or truly did not want to be there.

[Anonymous]

The top students at TJ are very impressive. They are taking college level courses and have extra interests that go well beyond high school. National rankings in most areas. Intel awards and other things like that. Don't know what the bottom % is like, but TJs policy is to ask those that are not making it to return to their home schools. So that tends to cut off the bottom.

[Anonymous]

I would not call being a top student at TJ a "hook." Rather, I would expect top students there with very rigorous courses and high test scores, simply are among the strongest academic candidates applying to any school and have a higher chance of admission than most. Sure, still need good recs, good essays, be able to interview without offending, etc., but compared to most smart kids who apply, coming from near the top of TJ has got to very helpful. As for class rank, it doesn't matter that they don't formally rank. Most private schools don't rank either but the colleges have a very strong sense of the relative strength within the class between counselor recs and because schools often provide a breakdown (i.e., a GPA above X is top 10%; between x-y is top 25%, etc.) and based on the colleges own historical records and naviance, they have a good feel for each applicant relative to others.
Finally, top schools certainly do care about valedictorians and Salutatorians. It isn't itself dispositive, of course, but if you read literature for many of the most selective privates (including Harvard, I believe) they call out how many of their students were the valedictorian of their high schools. Alone -not enough -- but top rankings open doors especially for kids with fewer "hooks" outside of their control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you automatically assume there is pushing going on by parents? There may be some pushing by some parents but not always. Sometimes it's peer pressures and sometimes it's the kids themselves being driven and ambitious. I have a child in high school and I have to stop my child from pushing himself too far. I have to tell him to take a break, go to sleep early and so on but he feels like selective colleges want too much these days, high GPA, high SAT scores, many APs, leadership positions, volunteer hours, club activities etc.

You are quick to blame the parents but think about the role of the colleges. The population increased substantially in the last 30 years but the number of seats at the top 10-15 universities are about the same. It appears to the high school kids that the whole admission process is unfair due to preferences for legacies, athletes and URMs. The whole process is not transparent and appears to be subjective and terms like "well-roundness" and "passion" are thrown around not to mention passing the "smell sense". That is why the high school kids are stressed out.

And where does this attitude that they need to get into the top top schools or else they'll flounder coming from? Did they come up with it on their own?

They must as well have. My parents barely knew what harvard is but I wanted to go there. PP is right that ambition is not necessarily coming from parents.

Yeah my sister once really put a Harvard guy down who thought she would be impressed with his Harvard creeds. Harvard, where's that?, she said. LOL.

If you really want to have some fun, ask an alum to spell "Princeton." No funny faces or tortured queries; just ask.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You folks don't really get how admissions works at the top universities. They don't care about valedictorians. They are looking for that "special something" and it's usually not something on paper.

I interview for one of the "holy grail" universities, and I have excellent "smell sense" for who's actually going to get in, and they don't look any different on paper from the others. Many times they don't look as fabulous on paper as others do. They are interesting kids who are interested in stuff. No one cares if they're number 1 or number 50 at TJ.

You're pushing your kids so hard. Please stop. I get depressed after some of these interviews -- I want to hug the kids and tell them it's going to be okay and some day they'll actually figure out who they are and it's okay not to know. It's okay to let your guard down. It's okay to not be doing worthy stuff every minute of every day. It's okay just to be.

Why do you automatically assume there is pushing going on by parents? There may be some pushing by some parents but not always. Sometimes it's peer pressures and sometimes it's the kids themselves being driven and ambitious. I have a child in high school and I have to stop my child from pushing himself too far. I have to tell him to take a break, go to sleep early and so on but he feels like selective colleges want too much these days, high GPA, high SAT scores, many APs, leadership positions, volunteer hours, club activities etc.

You are quick to blame the parents but think about the role of the colleges. The population increased substantially in the last 30 years but the number of seats at the top 10-15 universities are about the same. It appears to the high school kids that the whole admission process is unfair due to preferences for legacies, athletes and URMs. The whole process is not transparent and appears to be subjective and terms like "well-roundness" and "passion" are thrown around not to mention passing the "smell sense". That is why the high school kids are stressed out.

I'm not the above poster, but I think the poster is saying that in an interview, you can see the difference between the internally motivated kids and the ones being pushed by the parents. The ones being pushed are just never going to be able to fake what it is that the internally motivated kids have. And maybe the kids would develop their own internal motivation if their parents pushed a bit less and instead just loved the child for who he is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"No one cares if they're number 1 or number 50 at TJ."

I find above statement hard to believe.

For college admission purposes, I have no trouble believing this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"No one cares if they're number 1 or number 50 at TJ."

I find above statement hard to believe.

For college admission purposes, I have no trouble believing this.

Me neither. The top 50 kids at TJ are ALL impressive kids. Since no college is going to take all 50 of them, they look for something that stands out, a passion or interest that separates one kid from the pack of impressive kids. That may be the #1 kid but it is just as likely to be the #25 or #49 kid.

To me, a "hook" is something different from strict academic merit or SATs. Great grades (including the valedectorian) and SATs are pure merit. Assuming you're over the college's GPA and SAT thresholds, legacy status and athletic recruitment are hooks that would make you stand out for non-academic reasons.

[Anonymous]

UVA takes about 150 of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:UVA takes about 150 of them.

Besides UVA, obviously. MIT and Stanford probably accept a dozen or 20, and then fewer actually matriculate. But you know what we meant....

[Anonymous]

Harvard interviewer here. Being #1 vs #10 at TJ won't matter. Tiny differences in GPA are much less important to the admissions committee than evidence of criticasl thinking, motivation and initiative. The kid with one B in Complex Analysis who has published research is more desirable than the kids above him with straight As who haven't executed a project of their own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA takes about 150 of them.

Besides UVA, obviously. MIT and Stanford probably accept a dozen or 20, and then fewer actually matriculate. But you know what we meant....

Like we said, 1 vs 50 at TJ, standing alone, does not have much sway in college admissions. (You seem to want the answer to be different.)

[Anonymous]

I think Cornell and Michigan takes more than 50 each year. W&M takes about 170.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's no way to know which kid is "number 1." TJ does not rank students, period. Kids and their parents would commit murder Texas cheerleader-style if they did.

Haha!! So true. TJ is wise to not release rankings information.