Are we all fooling ourselves?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well it depends! If you look at the NAEP scores, the averages for the WoTP schools (by inference, according to their composition as per DCPS stats) are better than the 75th percentile of Mass, which is by far the best school system in the country. The 75th percentile here in DC is as good as the 90th percentile in MA. So, one can't entirely tar the system with the same brush. Now if you were to bring up the gap....well yes DC is perhaps the worst.

+1

Agreed. And if you sort the scores by white students (an imperfect proxy for middle income and above in DC), DC's are #1 in the country.

To repeat: White kids in DC outscore--by a decent margin--white kids in every state in the country. Why? Because there are virtually no poor white kids in DC; in fact, the majority of white kids in DC are upper-middle income and above. Privileged kids do well pretty much no matter what. (It would be interesting to compare test scores based on income level--that would give a better view into how DCPS compares to other public school systems.)

This a socioeconomic issue that every education system has to grapple with but that is particularly stark in cities like DC, where you have a huge income gap that also happens to fall largely (but obviously not completely) along racial lines. Add to that the fact that DC's high profile attracts reformer types eager to make names for themselves, and you get a volatile system that applies untested quick fixes to schools that most need consistency and long-term investment.

So, yes, DCPS is a great school system for the kids who would do well pretty much anywhere, like my kids--I might even argue that for kids with such a smooth path in life it is character-building to be part of a system that is at times bumpy and unpredictable and arbitrary. But DCPS (like most large urban school systems) fails most kids without those advantages.

Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.

Huh, I can see how it could read that way. But that was not my intention or point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:About DCPS? Its still the worst school system in the country, right?

If you think DCPS, you have never been in the Tallahassee and Tampa public schools. At least there is some choice in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It probably is, but my poor white kids are doing great at Wotp school.We are not leaving DC for suburbs even though our "friend" form VA keeps telling us that the best DC public school is worse than the worst VA public school.

How would she know this. What are her facts. just asking.

[Anonymous]

This question kind of misses the point. The issue stems from poverty.

It's like talking about the parts of the country with the highest obesity rates. Oh, maybe we should stay away from that city because we might get fat... uh, doesn't work like that. The issue there is that the food choices are high in fats and not healthy - and education and culture, of course.

To talk about DC being one of the the worst school systems without addressing the rampant and very sad poverty issue is... just silly.

[Anonymous]

Yes we are fooling ourselves if we thing our kid is getting the best in a class filled with 25 other students....over and over again it is shown that smaller class sizes are better. We are getting good but not the best. The only way it would be better is based on class size and it is not happening. My kid is doing fine but don't think for a moment that he would do even better in a smaller class that can differentiate! It is how it is and why the folks pay the big bucks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It probably is, but my poor white kids are doing great at Wotp school.We are not leaving DC for suburbs even though our "friend" form VA keeps telling us that the best DC public school is worse than the worst VA public school.

How would she know this. What are her facts. just asking.

How poor are your poor white kids?

[Anonymous]

When I came to DC years ago, I began interviewing a dozen Metro area high school seniors for my Ivy each fall. I also started keeping tabs on how many DCPS graduates apply annually, and how many are offered a spot - the admissions office is willing to release these stats.

While you often hear about DCPS, and now Latin, graduates cracking Ivies, the truth isn't as rosy as many a Wilson or Walls parent would have you believe. In a given year, there are a dozen suburban schools sending more students to my Ivy, each, than all DC public. DCPS normally sends one, two tops. The main problem doesn't seem to be subpar academics, it's limited guidance counseling. The Wilson kids report that they only get 10-15 minutes with their college counselor a quarter. The SWW and Banneker kids seem to get more help, but not much. Latin kids have access to the best public school college counseling services around, but few are in the running yet.

Without applications savvy parents involved, a DCPS kid rarely plans ahead to build the academic, extra-curricular and "competitions" profile to stand out in an Ivy admissions pool. This a shame, because many DCPS students have the right stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It probably is, but my poor white kids are doing great at Wotp school.We are not leaving DC for suburbs even though our "friend" form VA keeps telling us that the best DC public school is worse than the worst VA public school.

Your friend is a tool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I came to DC years ago, I began interviewing a dozen Metro area high school seniors for my Ivy each fall. I also started keeping tabs on how many DCPS graduates apply annually, and how many are offered a spot - the admissions office is willing to release these stats.

While you often hear about DCPS, and now Latin, graduates cracking Ivies, the truth isn't as rosy as many a Wilson or Walls parent would have you believe. In a given year, there are a dozen suburban schools sending more students to my Ivy, each, than all DC public. DCPS normally sends one, two tops. The main problem doesn't seem to be subpar academics, it's limited guidance counseling. The Wilson kids report that they only get 10-15 minutes with their college counselor a quarter. The SWW and Banneker kids seem to get more help, but not much. Latin kids have access to the best public school college counseling services around, but few are in the running yet.

Without applications savvy parents involved, a DCPS kid rarely plans ahead to build the academic, extra-curricular and "competitions" profile to stand out in an Ivy admissions pool. This a shame, because many DCPS students have the right stuff.

Interesting. Well, what do I need to do as a DCPS parent to advocate for my child? Based on the above, make sure she is on competitive teams, gets good grades, and what else? Do I advocate at my child's school or hire an outside counselor. We don't have big bucks to hire tutors or experts, per se. What would you recommend for me to do to increase my child's chances (assuming an Ivy is where she wants to go)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is it better than homeschool?

NO!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes we are fooling ourselves if we thing our kid is getting the best in a class filled with 25 other students....over and over again it is shown that smaller class sizes are better. We are getting good but not the best. The only way it would be better is based on class size and it is not happening. My kid is doing fine but don't think for a moment that he would do even better in a smaller class that can differentiate! It is how it is and why the folks pay the big bucks.

+1! If DC is one of 25 (6,7, ...) and s/he's weak in reading, S/he'll more likely get overlooked for an even weaker classmate. Conversely, if s/he is strong in math, there most likely won't be time to give him/her more advanced work.

[Anonymous]

Worse, worst, better, best - by what measure?!
Test scores (what subject), graduation rates, student/parent/teacher satisfaction, number of incidents with deadly weapons, home values in proximity of schools, #of admitted to ivy league colleges, #of students who'll some day be president, physical health and body weight?

No, DC's public schools are not the worst on any of these measures, and neither are they the best. But our specific DCPS is pretty darn good on all of them.

[Anonymous]

When we moved for a year and put our Wotp-elementary age child in a (very good ) private school, he was at least on par if not more advanced than other kids in that school. In math they were about a year behind (in social sciences they were clearly ahead). So, it depends. A lot depends on the teacher too. You can have a fabulous school with an uninspiring teacher, and vice-versa.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I came to DC years ago, I began interviewing a dozen Metro area high school seniors for my Ivy each fall. I also started keeping tabs on how many DCPS graduates apply annually, and how many are offered a spot - the admissions office is willing to release these stats.

While you often hear about DCPS, and now Latin, graduates cracking Ivies, the truth isn't as rosy as many a Wilson or Walls parent would have you believe. In a given year, there are a dozen suburban schools sending more students to my Ivy, each, than all DC public. DCPS normally sends one, two tops. The main problem doesn't seem to be subpar academics, it's limited guidance counseling. The Wilson kids report that they only get 10-15 minutes with their college counselor a quarter. The SWW and Banneker kids seem to get more help, but not much. Latin kids have access to the best public school college counseling services around, but few are in the running yet.

Without applications savvy parents involved, a DCPS kid rarely plans ahead to build the academic, extra-curricular and "competitions" profile to stand out in an Ivy admissions pool. This a shame, because many DCPS students have the right stuff.

Interesting. Well, what do I need to do as a DCPS parent to advocate for my child? Based on the above, make sure she is on competitive teams, gets good grades, and what else? Do I advocate at my child's school or hire an outside counselor. We don't have big bucks to hire tutors or experts, per se. What would you recommend for me to do to increase my child's chances (assuming an Ivy is where she wants to go)?

Not ivy poster but I have a stepdaughter that is graduating from an ivy college. Good grades and competitive teams are a dime a dozen. The kids you see at Yale, Harvard etc., in many cases have made a name for themselves in other ways, whether it be through community service or otherwise. They have done something that makes them standout. She graduated from an excellent public school in a Boston suburb and their guidance services were intense and very thorough. I can't speak to DC but from our experience the high school took the college application process very seriously. I'm sure there are people out there who will be more than happy to take your money and lead you in a direction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I came to DC years ago, I began interviewing a dozen Metro area high school seniors for my Ivy each fall. I also started keeping tabs on how many DCPS graduates apply annually, and how many are offered a spot - the admissions office is willing to release these stats.

While you often hear about DCPS, and now Latin, graduates cracking Ivies, the truth isn't as rosy as many a Wilson or Walls parent would have you believe. In a given year, there are a dozen suburban schools sending more students to my Ivy, each, than all DC public. DCPS normally sends one, two tops. The main problem doesn't seem to be subpar academics, it's limited guidance counseling. The Wilson kids report that they only get 10-15 minutes with their college counselor a quarter. The SWW and Banneker kids seem to get more help, but not much. Latin kids have access to the best public school college counseling services around, but few are in the running yet.

Without applications savvy parents involved, a DCPS kid rarely plans ahead to build the academic, extra-curricular and "competitions" profile to stand out in an Ivy admissions pool. This a shame, because many DCPS students have the right stuff.

Interesting. Well, what do I need to do as a DCPS parent to advocate for my child? Based on the above, make sure she is on competitive teams, gets good grades, and what else? Do I advocate at my child's school or hire an outside counselor. We don't have big bucks to hire tutors or experts, per se. What would you recommend for me to do to increase my child's chances (assuming an Ivy is where she wants to go)?

Not ivy poster but I have a stepdaughter that is graduating from an ivy college. Good grades and competitive teams are a dime a dozen. The kids you see at Yale, Harvard etc., in many cases have made a name for themselves in other ways, whether it be through community service or otherwise. They have done something that makes them standout. She graduated from an excellent public school in a Boston suburb and their guidance services were intense and very thorough. I can't speak to DC but from our experience the high school took the college application process very seriously. I'm sure there are people out there who will be more than happy to take your money and lead you in a direction.

Wow, I guess I should start saving now! Or maybe there are Ivy alumni that are willing to help DC parents and students. If so, I'd sign up.