The inevitability of STEM?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The US should make STEM education a requirement for all children so we can raise our own STEM employees and not have to recruit foreigners who take jobs from Americans.

It is already. Four years of math, four years of science and most HS students take more, whether or not they are pursuing a STEM degree. Calculus is the norm these days with the real STEM kids pushing beyond it.

But how many kids graduate from HS knowing how to write? And there's no way you can say that writing isn't a critical skill for employers.

[Anonymous]

It is already. Four years of math, four years of science and most HS students take more, whether or not they are pursuing a STEM degree. Calculus is the norm these days with the real STEM kids pushing beyond it.

But how many kids graduate from HS knowing how to write? And there's no way you can say that writing isn't a critical skill for employers.

Knowing how to write well is a pretty critical part of STEM. Being able to communicate your results as papers and write grants is pretty freaking important for getting through any STEM graduate program. Afterwards, you still need to prepare written documents in most STEM careers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
All I know is that of the top 10% in my DC's MoCo high school roughly 75% say they are majoring in a STEM discipline. Sometimes I wonder if kids just say this to please their parents, many of whom expect them to focus on STEM.

They say it so that colleges will be interested in them. Probably, once accepted, they change their major to something more interesting.

[Anonymous]

I am a female engineer and I love STEM subjects because they can so directly relate to fields in the ARTS. A really successful potter needs chemistry, many artists have an innate sense of symmetry and geometry and nature is just full of science.

I think the idea of STEM is too closely tied with the field of engineering, the concepts and foundations can make any career choice more enriching.

That being said I would be most happy if my highly gifted daughter that is a math whiz, took her skills and went into something uber creative like design or high level marketing.

Many of the engineering majors that I graduated with used their engineering degress to jump off into more creative fields. I personally am happy to go the rote and regular engineering work, it suits me, but if your passion lies elsewhere, science and math can help expand your viewpoint and marketability.

I will have to disagree with the writing well being a part of the STEM field, many hard core engineers are horrible writers and select engineering to avoid that subject, which is fine. Many excellent writers are not so great at higher level math...

I used to work extremely hard in college writing classes and if I got a B on a paper was thrilled. Calculus and theoretical high level subjects on the other hand were a breeze while the liberal art majors struggles.

I think you can't assume that everyone is going to be great at everything, and sometimes exposure is going to outweigh mastery.

[Anonymous]

So what do we encouarge our humanities-leaning kids to study? Mine would slit their wrists if they had to study/work in STEM, and I (a lawyer, naturally) am the same way. They will find their own way in college, I hope, but if your kids are asking for guidance and you know STEM is not a good fit, what do you suggest?

[Anonymous]

I will have to disagree with the writing well being a part of the STEM field, many hard core engineers are horrible writers and select engineering to avoid that subject, which is fine. Many excellent writers are not so great at higher level math...

To be fair, I'm a chemist/biochemist by training, and a huge part of both academic and industrial jobs at the highest level has to do with grant writing, writing reports, and publishing. I have seen a lot of really talented bench scientists struggle after their PhD and postdoc are over because bench skills do not translate into the skills required as a supervisor. I can see how this would be different if you were an engineer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So what do we encouarge our humanities-leaning kids to study? Mine would slit their wrists if they had to study/work in STEM, and I (a lawyer, naturally) am the same way. They will find their own way in college, I hope, but if your kids are asking for guidance and you know STEM is not a good fit, what do you suggest?

Back in my day with my engineering co-horts, if you told us we would never have to take another humanities or writing course... we would have considered you a God or Goddess! You can't escape everything you don't like, you have to buckle down and study things that don't come naturally. Encourage them to be open minded and to try different things, also if they are high school aged maybe the regular physics is okay instead of the AP physics? I put a question mark there because I'm not sure what is important for college admission these days, although my friends with HS kids are telling me that jobs, and extracurricular things are weighing in much heavier on applications. Maybe also some real community service, entrepreneurship experiences are more important to develop?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I will have to disagree with the writing well being a part of the STEM field, many hard core engineers are horrible writers and select engineering to avoid that subject, which is fine. Many excellent writers are not so great at higher level math...

To be fair, I'm a chemist/biochemist by training, and a huge part of both academic and industrial jobs at the highest level has to do with grant writing, writing reports, and publishing. I have seen a lot of really talented bench scientists struggle after their PhD and postdoc are over because bench skills do not translate into the skills required as a supervisor. I can see how this would be different if you were an engineer.

Agreed. I was in hard core development which is a totally different field. Our PhD levels would create more theoretical writing but with a very high level of technical knowledge so if you had an organized mind they could do very well.

[Anonymous]

People can no longer afford to major in hobbies

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what do we encouarge our humanities-leaning kids to study? Mine would slit their wrists if they had to study/work in STEM, and I (a lawyer, naturally) am the same way. They will find their own way in college, I hope, but if your kids are asking for guidance and you know STEM is not a good fit, what do you suggest?

Back in my day with my engineering co-horts, if you told us we would never have to take another humanities or writing course... we would have considered you a God or Goddess! You can't escape everything you don't like, you have to buckle down and study things that don't come naturally. Encourage them to be open minded and to try different things, also if they are high school aged maybe the regular physics is okay instead of the AP physics? I put a question mark there because I'm not sure what is important for college admission these days, although my friends with HS kids are telling me that jobs, and extracurricular things are weighing in much heavier on applications. Maybe also some real community service, entrepreneurship experiences are more important to develop?

I was asking about college/career path advice. My kids have taken AP science and math and earned A's, but it doesn't come naturally to them, and they have no real interest, and certainly no love, for these subjects. I just can't imagine having a happy and productive life choosing a career that one is not suited for, even if it is a "safe" choice.

[Anonymous]

I was asking about college/career path advice. My kids have taken AP science and math and earned A's, but it doesn't come naturally to them, and they have no real interest, and certainly no love, for these subjects. I just can't imagine having a happy and productive life choosing a career that one is not suited for, even if it is a "safe" choice.

Late 2000s college grad here. If you don't have any aptitude to be an engineer, doctor, or programmer (honestly these are the STEM careers that are "safe") then don't. Med school is competitive, and the curves in engineering are brutal. It's just not true that all engineers are making more and are more employable than all English majors. I know plenty of engineering majors with low GPAs who get screened out by HR and are incredibly bitter. I also know English majors who are doing quite well. Proportionally, more engineers are employable, sure, but these are generalizations.

This whole "the day of majoring in hobbies is over" mantra is a bit hyperbolic. If you do major in the humanities or social sciences, you just have to be a little more prepared to hustle, network, and take advantage of internships. There are still jobs at non-profits, in publishing, in journalism, at think tanks, being an editor, etc. My peers who graduated who did not study the sciences (which I did, btw) are not uniformly unemployed, nor are my STEM friends uniformly doing well. And for all that law is screwed as a profession, those kids who are going to top law schools and graduating in the top half of their class are still by and large finding employment. It's not easy, but the secret is that STEM is not a surefire path either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So what do we encouarge our humanities-leaning kids to study? Mine would slit their wrists if they had to study/work in STEM, and I (a lawyer, naturally) am the same way. They will find their own way in college, I hope, but if your kids are asking for guidance and you know STEM is not a good fit, what do you suggest?

Jesus, ignore the posts here already. You'd think if you just read DCUM that kids who don't go into STEM fields are destined to be failures. Its total BS.

And if your kids ask you for guidance, which generally they do not do, you tell them they need to figure it out for themselves. Another thing you lose sight of if you spend much time here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The US should make STEM education a requirement for all children so we can raise our own STEM employees and not have to recruit foreigners who take jobs from Americans.

It is already. Four years of math, four years of science and most HS students take more, whether or not they are pursuing a STEM degree. Calculus is the norm these days with the real STEM kids pushing beyond it.

But how many kids graduate from HS knowing how to write? And there's no way you can say that writing isn't a critical skill for employers.

No, I mean from the time they are in kindergarten. So we can compete with the foreigners who do that. And we need to start teaching physics in elementary school because beyond that, it is too late to really get it for many students. Physics is usually the weed out class in engineering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what do we encouarge our humanities-leaning kids to study? Mine would slit their wrists if they had to study/work in STEM, and I (a lawyer, naturally) am the same way. They will find their own way in college, I hope, but if your kids are asking for guidance and you know STEM is not a good fit, what do you suggest?

Back in my day with my engineering co-horts, if you told us we would never have to take another humanities or writing course... we would have considered you a God or Goddess! You can't escape everything you don't like, you have to buckle down and study things that don't come naturally. Encourage them to be open minded and to try different things, also if they are high school aged maybe the regular physics is okay instead of the AP physics? I put a question mark there because I'm not sure what is important for college admission these days, although my friends with HS kids are telling me that jobs, and extracurricular things are weighing in much heavier on applications. Maybe also some real community service, entrepreneurship experiences are more important to develop?

I was asking about college/career path advice. My kids have taken AP science and math and earned A's, but it doesn't come naturally to them, and they have no real interest, and certainly no love, for these subjects. I just can't imagine having a happy and productive life choosing a career that one is not suited for, even if it is a "safe" choice.

I don't mean this to sound harsh, I really don't... if your kids don't enjoy math and science and it does not come naturally to them please don't encourage them to go into STEM fields. When you get to the higher level classes it becomes to be a brutal grind and the senior project work is very difficult.

Even being an engineer I don't think it's the end all, seriously how many engineers are living in Chevy Chase? There are many more lucrative fields that rely on a completely different skill set. I would focus on what your child has a natural interest and aptitude, focus on schools with excellent graduate networking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People can no longer afford to major in hobbies

Says someone too fearful to ever cut it on a creative path.