Professors - here is why you have a bad reputation in the public at large

[Anonymous]

I didn't realize people looked down on professors. That said, yes, someone with higher education should earn more than someone who didn't finish high school. Now maybe if the argument was compared to other people who went through years of schooling, I could understand a bit.

But I'm really not understanding OP's argument.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The public looks down on professors?

+1 I am a professor. I did not know that the "public" looked down on me. Most people are very interested in talking to me when they find out that I am a scholar.

Do you live in DC? If so you are in a nerd bubble, doesn't count. I used to work for universities there but have since moved....people are not as impressed everywhere.

Do you read comments on articles about college costs? 90% of the time there are rants all about how faculty "only" teach two classes a year, don't work summers, and are grossly overpaid. Now, I know this not to be true, but again, as I said, I am a university fundraiser and I hear this crap all the time. Alumni want to know why their university is so much more expensive than it was when they were students, and they assume faculty salaries are to blame. I refute this argument constantly, because I know that is not true. And that most faculty work hard. But some are just assholes, and they do not care to hide it. My argument is that the bad apples poison the bunch because their attitude permeates everything they do and people know they have a superiority complex and a disdain for students and teaching when it is student tuition, after all, that pays the lion's share of the cost of their salaries and benefits, as they do mine. I never forget who I really work for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didn't realize people looked down on professors. That said, yes, someone with higher education should earn more than someone who didn't finish high school. Now maybe if the argument was compared to other people who went through years of schooling, I could understand a bit.

But I'm really not understanding OP's argument.

You're being purposely obtuse. Are you really arguing that there are tons of high school graduates making more than full-time, tenured professors? Average starting salary for an assistant professor is around $60k and it goes up from there as you reach tenure and rise in the ranks. Full professors generally make six figures - hardly poverty wages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The public looks down on professors?

+1 I am a professor. I did not know that the "public" looked down on me. Most people are very interested in talking to me when they find out that I am a scholar.

Do you live in DC? If so you are in a nerd bubble, doesn't count. I used to work for universities there but have since moved....people are not as impressed everywhere.

Do you read comments on articles about college costs? 90% of the time there are rants all about how faculty "only" teach two classes a year, don't work summers, and are grossly overpaid. Now, I know this not to be true, but again, as I said, I am a university fundraiser and I hear this crap all the time. Alumni want to know why their university is so much more expensive than it was when they were students, and they assume faculty salaries are to blame. I refute this argument constantly, because I know that is not true. And that most faculty work hard. But some are just assholes, and they do not care to hide it. My argument is that the bad apples poison the bunch because their attitude permeates everything they do and people know they have a superiority complex and a disdain for students and teaching when it is student tuition, after all, that pays the lion's share of the cost of their salaries and benefits, as they do mine. I never forget who I really work for.

So you're angry that you have to do your job - which is to refute untruths about the rising cost of higher education? Sounds like it's time for you to change jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't realize people looked down on professors. That said, yes, someone with higher education should earn more than someone who didn't finish high school. Now maybe if the argument was compared to other people who went through years of schooling, I could understand a bit.

But I'm really not understanding OP's argument.

You're being purposely obtuse. Are you really arguing that there are tons of high school graduates making more than full-time, tenured professors? Average starting salary for an assistant professor is around $60k and it goes up from there as you reach tenure and rise in the ranks. Full professors generally make six figures - hardly poverty wages.

Yikes, OP. Why are you comparing high school grads to PhDs? Even a comparison between college grads and PhDs doesn't make a lot of sense, although it makes more sense than your comparison. The concept you are missing here is "human capital" which is the investment a person makes in himself or herself via education and training. If 7 additional years of earning that PhD had no return for the investment, then nobody would do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re: "A good number of you make much more than than the median salary"

I'm going to assume the OP is doing way more better in stats than most students.

I was typing fast...I meant median HHI in the country, I.e. $50k. Even the lowest paid professors start out there and salaries continue to rise as they make tenure and rise in the ranks.

NP. So spending years in school earning that PhD shouldn't count for anything, salarywise? You're saying that PhDs should make the same wages as Walmart clerks?

Help me understand your sense of outraged injustice. Now if you had ranted about how we pay elementary school teachers less than BAs in Finance, I'd be right with you.

Do you always argue by attributing points to the other person that they didn't say? Show me a Wal-Mart clerk who starts out at $60k a year plus benefits and pension and can earn the right to never be fired. I didn't say their education shouldn't count for anything...only that when they take a job and do half of it (teaching) grudgingly and with disdain, they should know that they are contributing to a negative view of their profession. It's not like anyone has ever said that becoming a university professor was the road to wealth. And very, very few become research hot shots, ao if that is tue expectation of newly minted PhD's, well, they are in for a surprise. The reality is that there are still tens of thousands of undergrads to teach, and tuition ain't cheap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't realize people looked down on professors. That said, yes, someone with higher education should earn more than someone who didn't finish high school. Now maybe if the argument was compared to other people who went through years of schooling, I could understand a bit.

But I'm really not understanding OP's argument.

You're being purposely obtuse. Are you really arguing that there are tons of high school graduates making more than full-time, tenured professors? Average starting salary for an assistant professor is around $60k and it goes up from there as you reach tenure and rise in the ranks. Full professors generally make six figures - hardly poverty wages.

Yikes, OP. Why are you comparing high school grads to PhDs? Even a comparison between college grads and PhDs doesn't make a lot of sense, although it makes more sense than your comparison. The concept you are missing here is "human capital" which is the investment a person makes in himself or herself via education and training. If 7 additional years of earning that PhD had no return for the investment, then nobody would do it.

Yikes, PP - learn how to read. I was responding to the previous PP's point, as if I was arguing that professors shouldn't make more than someone with a high school education only. (When I didn't. And they don't.)

[Anonymous]

I have a PhD and this is what I believe: Academia is a racket, and the administrators are just as complicit as the tenured/tenure track "scholars." The OP is right that most professors genuinely believe that they have the toughest jobs in the world, despite having great perks that no longer exist in other industries (job for life, tons of flexibility, job for life.) That's in part because most academics have never worked in any other capacity, not even at the local Dairy Queen in HS. They live in a very insulated culture.

All that said, this world is becoming smaller and smaller. There are far more PhD graduates than jobs available in most disciplines, and unless mandatory retirement ages are reinstated that's not changing any time soon. Which means we'll all pay $60k+++ per year for our kids to be taught by adjuncts who barely clear minimum wage and who don't get any benefits. But the school will have a state-of-the-art student center and a whole army of administrators like the OP, who detest their institutions but live a fine life off them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The public looks down on professors?

+1 I am a professor. I did not know that the "public" looked down on me. Most people are very interested in talking to me when they find out that I am a scholar.

Do you live in DC? If so you are in a nerd bubble, doesn't count. I used to work for universities there but have since moved....people are not as impressed everywhere.

Do you read comments on articles about college costs? 90% of the time there are rants all about how faculty "only" teach two classes a year, don't work summers, and are grossly overpaid. Now, I know this not to be true, but again, as I said, I am a university fundraiser and I hear this crap all the time. Alumni want to know why their university is so much more expensive than it was when they were students, and they assume faculty salaries are to blame. I refute this argument constantly, because I know that is not true. And that most faculty work hard. But some are just assholes, and they do not care to hide it. My argument is that the bad apples poison the bunch because their attitude permeates everything they do and people know they have a superiority complex and a disdain for students and teaching when it is student tuition, after all, that pays the lion's share of the cost of their salaries and benefits, as they do mine. I never forget who I really work for.

So you're angry that you have to do your job - which is to refute untruths about the rising cost of higher education? Sounds like it's time for you to change jobs.

No, I just loathe the ungrateful assholes amongst the faculty that I have to work with. Who are ALWAYS unhappy, feel entitled to large donations (as if donors care that they just think their work is worthy and are pissed when they have to justify a request), who only talk about what they're not getting, how their research isn't being supported, how they are angry they have to teach a full course load, blah blah blah...

I work long hours with minimal staff to support over two dozen departments. I travel 1-2 times a month, attend a ton of evening and weekend events. I don't complain because it is the job I signed up for -I simply offer that to show that I too worked hard. And I'm also not getting rich. I put lipstick on the proverbial pig when they offend donors by complaining about teaching in front of them. Lucky for me, the good outnumber the bad and I can choose not to work with the bad ones unless I uncover a donor with interest in their specific area of expertise. I love my job most days, but on days like today I just want to throat punch the pompous energy vampires on the faculty who do nothing but shine like children ad nauseum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The public looks down on professors?

+1 I am a professor. I did not know that the "public" looked down on me. Most people are very interested in talking to me when they find out that I am a scholar.

Do you live in DC? If so you are in a nerd bubble, doesn't count. I used to work for universities there but have since moved....people are not as impressed everywhere.

Do you read comments on articles about college costs? 90% of the time there are rants all about how faculty "only" teach two classes a year, don't work summers, and are grossly overpaid. Now, I know this not to be true, but again, as I said, I am a university fundraiser and I hear this crap all the time. Alumni want to know why their university is so much more expensive than it was when they were students, and they assume faculty salaries are to blame. I refute this argument constantly, because I know that is not true. And that most faculty work hard. But some are just assholes, and they do not care to hide it. My argument is that the bad apples poison the bunch because their attitude permeates everything they do and people know they have a superiority complex and a disdain for students and teaching when it is student tuition, after all, that pays the lion's share of the cost of their salaries and benefits, as they do mine. I never forget who I really work for.

So you're angry that you have to do your job - which is to refute untruths about the rising cost of higher education? Sounds like it's time for you to change jobs.

No, I just loathe the ungrateful assholes amongst the faculty that I have to work with. Who are ALWAYS unhappy, feel entitled to large donations (as if donors care that they just think their work is worthy and are pissed when they have to justify a request), who only talk about what they're not getting, how their research isn't being supported, how they are angry they have to teach a full course load, blah blah blah...

I work long hours with minimal staff to support over two dozen departments. I travel 1-2 times a month, attend a ton of evening and weekend events. I don't complain because it is the job I signed up for -I simply offer that to show that I too worked hard. And I'm also not getting rich. I put lipstick on the proverbial pig when they offend donors by complaining about teaching in front of them. Lucky for me, the good outnumber the bad and I can choose not to work with the bad ones unless I uncover a donor with interest in their specific area of expertise. I love my job most days, but on days like today I just want to throat punch the pompous energy vampires on the faculty who do nothing but shine like children ad nauseum.

Where do you work, that alum donations go straight to certain profs? In the real world, profs have to apply for grants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a PhD and this is what I believe: Academia is a racket, and the administrators are just as complicit as the tenured/tenure track "scholars." The OP is right that most professors genuinely believe that they have the toughest jobs in the world, despite having great perks that no longer exist in other industries (job for life, tons of flexibility, job for life.) That's in part because most academics have never worked in any other capacity, not even at the local Dairy Queen in HS. They live in a very insulated culture.

All that said, this world is becoming smaller and smaller. There are far more PhD graduates than jobs available in most disciplines, and unless mandatory retirement ages are reinstated that's not changing any time soon. Which means we'll all pay $60k+++ per year for our kids to be taught by adjuncts who barely clear minimum wage and who don't get any benefits. But the school will have a state-of-the-art student center and a whole army of administrators like the OP, who detest their institutions but live a fine life off them.

I don't detest my institution. Far from it. I believe in higher ed because my degrees have changed my life. I came from nothing and have worked hard to be successful in my career. I actually agree with you on a lot of points. When I do my job, I focus like a laser on students and faculty - since teaching and research are at the core of what it means to be a university. I want to rip my hair out when a big potential donor gets poached because we "need their help to complete the stadium.". I just don't see why the angriest faculty have such disdain for students without whom, after all, there would be no colleges or universities. And by students let me be clear I mean undergrads - not graduate students who often get their tuition paid for through fellowships or teaching assistantships and who also usually get a stipend. Surely what is wrong with higher ed is not the fault of 18 year old kids who are going by what their parents and the marketing people have to say.

[Anonymous]

I'm not in academia. But I certainly hold profs in high regard. I guess that's because the rotten apples are in the minority, like in any profession where there are a few rotten apples in an otherwise great barrel.

OP, you've lost all perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The public looks down on professors?

+1 I am a professor. I did not know that the "public" looked down on me. Most people are very interested in talking to me when they find out that I am a scholar.

Do you live in DC? If so you are in a nerd bubble, doesn't count. I used to work for universities there but have since moved....people are not as impressed everywhere.

Do you read comments on articles about college costs? 90% of the time there are rants all about how faculty "only" teach two classes a year, don't work summers, and are grossly overpaid. Now, I know this not to be true, but again, as I said, I am a university fundraiser and I hear this crap all the time. Alumni want to know why their university is so much more expensive than it was when they were students, and they assume faculty salaries are to blame. I refute this argument constantly, because I know that is not true. And that most faculty work hard. But some are just assholes, and they do not care to hide it. My argument is that the bad apples poison the bunch because their attitude permeates everything they do and people know they have a superiority complex and a disdain for students and teaching when it is student tuition, after all, that pays the lion's share of the cost of their salaries and benefits, as they do mine. I never forget who I really work for.

So you're angry that you have to do your job - which is to refute untruths about the rising cost of higher education? Sounds like it's time for you to change jobs.

No, I just loathe the ungrateful assholes amongst the faculty that I have to work with. Who are ALWAYS unhappy, feel entitled to large donations (as if donors care that they just think their work is worthy and are pissed when they have to justify a request), who only talk about what they're not getting, how their research isn't being supported, how they are angry they have to teach a full course load, blah blah blah...

I work long hours with minimal staff to support over two dozen departments. I travel 1-2 times a month, attend a ton of evening and weekend events. I don't complain because it is the job I signed up for -I simply offer that to show that I too worked hard. And I'm also not getting rich. I put lipstick on the proverbial pig when they offend donors by complaining about teaching in front of them. Lucky for me, the good outnumber the bad and I can choose not to work with the bad ones unless I uncover a donor with interest in their specific area of expertise. I love my job most days, but on days like today I just want to throat punch the pompous energy vampires on the faculty who do nothing but shine like children ad nauseum.

Where do you work, that alum donations go straight to certain profs? In the real world, profs have to apply for grants.

Research is often supported by private money through endowed funds for specific kinds of research. I assure you it's quite common.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not in academia. But I certainly hold profs in high regard. I guess that's because the rotten apples are in the minority, like in any profession where there are a few rotten apples in an otherwise great barrel.

OP, you've lost all perspective.

If you say so. Spend a year asking for large donations for your alma mater and report back what you hear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I don't detest my institution. Far from it. I believe in higher ed because my degrees have changed my life. I came from nothing and have worked hard to be successful in my career. I actually agree with you on a lot of points. When I do my job, I focus like a laser on students and faculty - since teaching and research are at the core of what it means to be a university. I want to rip my hair out when a big potential donor gets poached because we "need their help to complete the stadium.". I just don't see why the angriest faculty have such disdain for students without whom, after all, there would be no colleges or universities. And by students let me be clear I mean undergrads - not graduate students who often get their tuition paid for through fellowships or teaching assistantships and who also usually get a stipend. Surely what is wrong with higher ed is not the fault of 18 year old kids who are going by what their parents and the marketing people have to say.

I'm so confused.

Are you mad at the alums and/or administrations who want nice stadiums?

Are you mad at the profs who give Ds (deserved or not) to the kids of big donor alums, per your earlier post?

Are you angry that some profs seem angry? If so, could we ask, in a meta sort of way: what does that say about the righteousness of your own anger, which is seething out of your posts?