Why shouldn't AAP be self selected?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is, "self selected" as you describe it is not actually self selected.

It is parent selected.

And nothing is worse than a bunch of kids doing something they are not prepared to handle only because their parents want it.

Yes because they are children the parent would need to select however this is done very successfully in the middle and high school.

If the kids aren't cutting it they are not recommended by the teachers to continue the advanced curriculum. I think it should be the same for elementary/middle AAP centers. See one of the the many problems with the AAP program is there is no official "out" (once in always in) and the future "in" is difficult at best. So self select, self weed. Get it!

No, it's not

I teach middle school. Every year parents joyfully override recommendations. Sometimes they will flat out tell me they just want their child with the "good kids". Open enrollment has really dumbed down honors classes.

Kin to AAP appeals. I think a parent has every right to set their child up for failure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The state requires school systems to provided gifted services (not sure of the specifics, but I am pretty sure it requires screening as part of the process). Maybe AAP should be open enrollment. Then FCPS could provide GT services for the truly gifted, not just high achievers.

Agree that the state requires school identification of gifted, not parent placement of gifted. School systems must provide this. What you are looking for is similar to honor classes in MS/HS, but at ES level. From the VDOE website:
"Eligible student" means a student who has been identified as gifted by the identification and placement committee for the school division's gifted education program.
"Gifted students" means those students in public elementary, middle, and secondary schools beginning with kindergarten through twelfth grade who demonstrate high levels of accomplishment or who show the potential for higher levels of accomplishment when compared to others of the same age, experience, or environment. Their aptitudes and potential for accomplishment are so outstanding that they require special programs to meet their educational needs. These students will be identified by professionally qualified persons through the use of multiple criteria as having potential or demonstrated aptitudes in one or more of the following areas:

Obviously the VDOE needs to update their rules and regulations for gifted education since it is no longer providing a "gifted" program but is providing an advanced placement program. Or better yet, maybe they should adhere to their rules and stop the degregation of their gifted program. Either way thanks for identifying yet another issue with the AAP program. For those with the desire to battle the system for fairness in education this is a great starting point. However, IMO, the students I see coming out of the AAP centers moving to middle and HS levels are far from gifted and for that matter far from advanced.

VDOE has outlined the guidelines for what school systems provide for gifted services. The regulations were recently (3 or 4 years ago?) updated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The state requires school systems to provided gifted services (not sure of the specifics, but I am pretty sure it requires screening as part of the process). Maybe AAP should be open enrollment. Then FCPS could provide GT services for the truly gifted, not just high achievers.

Agree that the state requires school identification of gifted, not parent placement of gifted. School systems must provide this. What you are looking for is similar to honor classes in MS/HS, but at ES level. From the VDOE website:
"Eligible student" means a student who has been identified as gifted by the identification and placement committee for the school division's gifted education program.
"Gifted students" means those students in public elementary, middle, and secondary schools beginning with kindergarten through twelfth grade who demonstrate high levels of accomplishment or who show the potential for higher levels of accomplishment when compared to others of the same age, experience, or environment. Their aptitudes and potential for accomplishment are so outstanding that they require special programs to meet their educational needs. These students will be identified by professionally qualified persons through the use of multiple criteria as having potential or demonstrated aptitudes in one or more of the following areas:

Obviously the VDOE needs to update their rules and regulations for gifted education since it is no longer providing a "gifted" program but is providing an advanced placement program. Or better yet, maybe they should adhere to their rules and stop the degregation of their gifted program. Either way thanks for identifying yet another issue with the AAP program. For those with the desire to battle the system for fairness in education this is a great starting point. However, IMO, the students I see coming out of the AAP centers moving to middle and HS levels are far from gifted and for that matter far from advanced.

VDOE has outlined the guidelines for what school systems provide for gifted services. The regulations were recently (3 or 4 years ago?) updated.

Well they need to rework them again. They don't have a gifted program anymore!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The state requires school systems to provided gifted services (not sure of the specifics, but I am pretty sure it requires screening as part of the process). Maybe AAP should be open enrollment. Then FCPS could provide GT services for the truly gifted, not just high achievers.

Agree that the state requires school identification of gifted, not parent placement of gifted. School systems must provide this. What you are looking for is similar to honor classes in MS/HS, but at ES level. From the VDOE website:
"Eligible student" means a student who has been identified as gifted by the identification and placement committee for the school division's gifted education program.
"Gifted students" means those students in public elementary, middle, and secondary schools beginning with kindergarten through twelfth grade who demonstrate high levels of accomplishment or who show the potential for higher levels of accomplishment when compared to others of the same age, experience, or environment. Their aptitudes and potential for accomplishment are so outstanding that they require special programs to meet their educational needs. These students will be identified by professionally qualified persons through the use of multiple criteria as having potential or demonstrated aptitudes in one or more of the following areas:

Obviously the VDOE needs to update their rules and regulations for gifted education since it is no longer providing a "gifted" program but is providing an advanced placement program. Or better yet, maybe they should adhere to their rules and stop the degregation of their gifted program. Either way thanks for identifying yet another issue with the AAP program. For those with the desire to battle the system for fairness in education this is a great starting point. However, IMO, the students I see coming out of the AAP centers moving to middle and HS levels are far from gifted and for that matter far from advanced.

VDOE has outlined the guidelines for what school systems provide for gifted services. The regulations were recently (3 or 4 years ago?) updated.

That is true as VDOE has no programs. VDOE sets guidelines. School systems implement the guidelines per the state regulations. School system implementations are the programs.

Well they need to rework them again. They don't have a gifted program anymore!

[Anonymous]

[/b]Their aptitudes and potential for accomplishment are so outstanding that they require special programs to meet their educational needs.[b]

Here is where I have issue with the AAP program today. The large amount of students being identified as "so outstanding" is out of skew with reality. Look FCPS has a lot of smart students but the majority do not fall under this criteria.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The state requires school systems to provided gifted services (not sure of the specifics, but I am pretty sure it requires screening as part of the process). Maybe AAP should be open enrollment. Then FCPS could provide GT services for the truly gifted, not just high achievers.

Agree that the state requires school identification of gifted, not parent placement of gifted. School systems must provide this. What you are looking for is similar to honor classes in MS/HS, but at ES level. From the VDOE website:
"Eligible student" means a student who has been identified as gifted by the identification and placement committee for the school division's gifted education program.
"Gifted students" means those students in public elementary, middle, and secondary schools beginning with kindergarten through twelfth grade who demonstrate high levels of accomplishment or who show the potential for higher levels of accomplishment when compared to others of the same age, experience, or environment. Their aptitudes and potential for accomplishment are so outstanding that they require special programs to meet their educational needs. These students will be identified by professionally qualified persons through the use of multiple criteria as having potential or demonstrated aptitudes in one or more of the following areas:

Obviously the VDOE needs to update their rules and regulations for gifted education since it is no longer providing a "gifted" program but is providing an advanced placement program. Or better yet, maybe they should adhere to their rules and stop the degregation of their gifted program. Either way thanks for identifying yet another issue with the AAP program. For those with the desire to battle the system for fairness in education this is a great starting point. However, IMO, the students I see coming out of the AAP centers moving to middle and HS levels are far from gifted and for that matter far from advanced.

VDOE has outlined the guidelines for what school systems provide for gifted services. The regulations were recently (3 or 4 years ago?) updated.

Obviously you have multiple gifted children or are on the selection committee, an AAP teacher, etc..., who does not want to lose the program or your job. But I believe it is just a matter of time before big changes will be demanded.

[Anonymous]

I don't have a bone in this because I have a child who would be in AAP whether or not it remains status quo or was a pick only the "truly gifted students"

The current program as it stands could use some improvements. However, I think that the slightly larger sizes we currently have and the variety of gifted and really smart hard workers is beneficial to all the students but especially the kids who test the highest.

However, AAP as it stands is as large as it should be.

Open enrollment and parent placement is a terrible idea and would destroy any benefits to the program, especially for those kids who test the highest.

What I do think would be beneficial is to periodically reevalute kids who appear to be struggling in multiple subjects and asses whether they should continue in AAP.

The transition from 6th to MS would be an excellent time to do this, as would the end of third grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't have a bone in this because I have a child who would be in AAP whether or not it remains status quo or was a pick only the "truly gifted students"

The current program as it stands could use some improvements. However, I think that the slightly larger sizes we currently have and the variety of gifted and really smart hard workers is beneficial to all the students but especially the kids who test the highest.

However, AAP as it stands is as large as it should be.

Open enrollment and parent placement is a terrible idea and would destroy any benefits to the program, especially for those kids who test the highest.

What I do think would be beneficial is to periodically reevalute kids who appear to be struggling in multiple subjects and asses whether they should continue in AAP.

The transition from 6th to MS would be an excellent time to do this, as would the end of third grade.

You do realize the program is already far from the "highest test scores" or are you just one of those who is so smart you are stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this would fix the problem. A tax dollar paid for public school should be available to any tax paying citizen of the county without all of the hoops just as all other public schools. Let parents self select AAP centers if they want it for their child. Base continued enrollment in the AAP center program on testing and grades. There you go bickering solved!

Because kids would suffer.

Those poor, poor deprived children. I'll be weeping into my pillow tonight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem is, "self selected" as you describe it is not actually self selected.

It is parent selected.

And nothing is worse than a bunch of kids doing something they are not prepared to handle only because their parents want it.

You mean like the bunch of average kids whose parents currently appeal to get them in, come hell or high water?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is, "self selected" as you describe it is not actually self selected.

It is parent selected.

And nothing is worse than a bunch of kids doing something they are not prepared to handle only because their parents want it.

Yes because they are children the parent would need to select however this is done very successfully in the middle and high school.

If the kids aren't cutting it they are not recommended by the teachers to continue the advanced curriculum. I think it should be the same for elementary/middle AAP centers. See one of the the many problems with the AAP program is there is no official "out" (once in always in) and the future "in" is difficult at best. So self select, self weed. Get it!

No, it's not

I teach middle school. Every year parents joyfully override recommendations. Sometimes they will flat out tell me they just want their child with the "good kids". Open enrollment has really dumbed down honors classes.

Oh please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is, "self selected" as you describe it is not actually self selected.

It is parent selected.

And nothing is worse than a bunch of kids doing something they are not prepared to handle only because their parents want it.

Yes because they are children the parent would need to select however this is done very successfully in the middle and high school.

If the kids aren't cutting it they are not recommended by the teachers to continue the advanced curriculum. I think it should be the same for elementary/middle AAP centers. See one of the the many problems with the AAP program is there is no official "out" (once in always in) and the future "in" is difficult at best. So self select, self weed. Get it!

No, it's not

I teach middle school. Every year parents joyfully override recommendations. Sometimes they will flat out tell me they just want their child with the "good kids". Open enrollment has really dumbed down honors classes.

Oh please.

Sorry, not sure what you're implying.

I have multiple students who failed their 7th grade sol in my honors class. Parents want them in honors though.

[Anonymous]

I don't know about all schools, but in DC's school, there are teachers who have recommended children not continue in AAP. One of them even did this mid-year which I think is unfair to make them switch classes. I'd rather see the child finish the year out and then go back to general ed the following year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't have a bone in this because I have a child who would be in AAP whether or not it remains status quo or was a pick only the "truly gifted students"

The current program as it stands could use some improvements. However, I think that the slightly larger sizes we currently have and the variety of gifted and really smart hard workers is beneficial to all the students but especially the kids who test the highest.

However, AAP as it stands is as large as it should be.

Open enrollment and parent placement is a terrible idea and would destroy any benefits to the program, especially for those kids who test the highest.

What I do think would be beneficial is to periodically reevalute kids who appear to be struggling in multiple subjects and asses whether they should continue in AAP.
The transition from 6th to MS would be an excellent time to do this, as would the end of third grade.

You do realize the program is already far from the "highest test scores" or are you just one of those who is so smart you are stupid.

You lack reading comprehension skills.

What I said was that the kids in AAP benefit greatly from there being a range of kids in there, from those who are there due to hard work to tuose students who test off the charts. In my opinion the kids who test off the chart benefit the most from having the other kids in AAP.

I think the program would not be as beneficial if it was limited to only the kids who are at the very, very top.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't have a bone in this because I have a child who would be in AAP whether or not it remains status quo or was a pick only the "truly gifted students"

The current program as it stands could use some improvements. However, I think that the slightly larger sizes we currently have and the variety of gifted and really smart hard workers is beneficial to all the students but especially the kids who test the highest.

However, AAP as it stands is as large as it should be.

Open enrollment and parent placement is a terrible idea and would destroy any benefits to the program, especially for those kids who test the highest.

What I do think would be beneficial is to periodically reevalute kids who appear to be struggling in multiple subjects and asses whether they should continue in AAP.
The transition from 6th to MS would be an excellent time to do this, as would the end of third grade.

You do realize the program is already far from the "highest test scores" or are you just one of those who is so smart you are stupid.

You lack reading comprehension skills.

What I said was that the kids in AAP benefit greatly from there being a range of kids in there, from those who are there due to hard work to tuose students who test off the charts. In my opinion the kids who test off the chart benefit the most from having the other kids in AAP.

I think the program would not be as beneficial if it was limited to only the kids who are at the very, very top.

If your acquaintances don't tell you that you are an IDIOT often I guarantee you they talk about it behind your back. What is the point of the AAP program at all if you want a range? There is a range of kids in neighborhood schools - not that I would want you there.