Lee High School in Springfield

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:West Springfield is far superior in many ways. It is also slated to be completely rebuilt in a couple of years. The neighborhoods zoned for it are so nice - walkable and family-friendly. It is a good time to buy there, but do it soon as prices are on the way up - or so says DCUM.

Care to elaborate on the many ways in which you think West Springfield is far superior? I'm not saying it isn't true, I would just appreciate some actual perspective. And, no, I don't mean the rating of Lee vs. WS on greatschools, I mean actual first or second hand experience with either school.

Sure. From firsthand experience. We are in Lee and do not tell teachers are invested in the school. My sister and her family are at WSHS and so many of the teachers are part of the community, living in the neighborhoods. The PTA is great and families are encouraged to be involved. I am desperate to get over there before my second starts high school. Just wish we had been there for MS, too. Irving is great. ES was okay for us, but Cardinal Forest seemed great. I hate that she was right! Now we just need to find a house. C'mon spring market!!!

Those sound like some great things about WSHS, but I didn't hear a lot of specifics about Lee. Are you saying that the teachers at Lee are not invested in the school? What has led you to that conclusion? Have you been involved with Lee's PTA? Are parents not encouraged to be involved? Sounds like you didn't like Key MS either. I'd be interested to hear anything you have to offer about Key too. I'm really just curious since my wife and I moved into the Lee pyramid last year and I want to learn more about the schools our children may attend - I'm not trying to challenge your assertions, I just can't really tell from what you've posted whether Lee truly had negatives or if your sister is simply more involved at WS and Irving than you have been at Lee and Key. I understand if you don't have the time to post the answers to my questions, but if you do, I'd enjoy hearing more of your perspective.

[Anonymous]

We are in this school pyramid with children currently in elementary school. We heard great things about Lee.

Lee is going through principal selection so it should be interesting to see who will be selected.

[Anonymous]

I'd be willing to bet that if your final goal is to get into a Virginia state college you would be better off at Lee.

For all the reasons why West Springfield is better, it just makes it that much harder to be the kids that get accepted to the JMUs, Tech, UVA, ect...

I'd do the IB at Lee and have a smaller pond for college bound kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'd be willing to bet that if your final goal is to get into a Virginia state college you would be better off at Lee.

For all the reasons why West Springfield is better, it just makes it that much harder to be the kids that get accepted to the JMUs, Tech, UVA, ect...

I'd do the IB at Lee and have a smaller pond for college bound kids.

It's a suburban legend that kids at the smaller pond/IB schools have it easier getting into U. Va., etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd be willing to bet that if your final goal is to get into a Virginia state college you would be better off at Lee.

For all the reasons why West Springfield is better, it just makes it that much harder to be the kids that get accepted to the JMUs, Tech, UVA, ect...

I'd do the IB at Lee and have a smaller pond for college bound kids.

It's a suburban legend that kids at the smaller pond/IB schools have it easier getting into U. Va., etc.

Well, not really. If you knew anything about college admissions, you would understand. The thing is, if you take 2 kids, one at Lee and one at West Springfield who are generally equal levels of intelligence and accomplishment, the kid at Lee is probably going to stand out a lot more than the kid at West Springfield. His class rank will be higher and he will have less kids from his school applying to competitive colleges. That will give him better admissions chances. Of course, you might argue that if you send two kids of equal intelligence to two different schools like WS and Lee, the kid sent to Lee will be brought down by the presence of a larger population of lower performing students, and that certainly could happen.

Really, all of this underscores two things, in my opinion. One, a motivated kid can probably excel at just about any high school in Fairfax County, including Lee. Two, whether a particular kid has environments in which he or she will excel is often a personal and individualized question. Some kids will excel in an environment where they are a big fish in a little pond, while others will better excel in an environment where there are many other high achievers surrounding them. And, some kids will excel in either environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd be willing to bet that if your final goal is to get into a Virginia state college you would be better off at Lee.

For all the reasons why West Springfield is better, it just makes it that much harder to be the kids that get accepted to the JMUs, Tech, UVA, ect...

I'd do the IB at Lee and have a smaller pond for college bound kids.

It's a suburban legend that kids at the smaller pond/IB schools have it easier getting into U. Va., etc.

Well, not really. If you knew anything about college admissions, you would understand. The thing is, if you take 2 kids, one at Lee and one at West Springfield who are generally equal levels of intelligence and accomplishment, the kid at Lee is probably going to stand out a lot more than the kid at West Springfield. His class rank will be higher and he will have less kids from his school applying to competitive colleges. That will give him better admissions chances. Of course, you might argue that if you send two kids of equal intelligence to two different schools like WS and Lee, the kid sent to Lee will be brought down by the presence of a larger population of lower performing students, and that certainly could happen.

Really, all of this underscores two things, in my opinion. One, a motivated kid can probably excel at just about any high school in Fairfax County, including Lee. Two, whether a particular kid has environments in which he or she will excel is often a personal and individualized question. Some kids will excel in an environment where they are a big fish in a little pond, while others will better excel in an environment where there are many other high achievers surrounding them. And, some kids will excel in either environment.

Most kids will do better at schools with larger cohorts of high achieving students. The evidence is pretty clear on that score.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd be willing to bet that if your final goal is to get into a Virginia state college you would be better off at Lee.

For all the reasons why West Springfield is better, it just makes it that much harder to be the kids that get accepted to the JMUs, Tech, UVA, ect...

I'd do the IB at Lee and have a smaller pond for college bound kids.

It's a suburban legend that kids at the smaller pond/IB schools have it easier getting into U. Va., etc.

Well, not really. If you knew anything about college admissions, you would understand. The thing is, if you take 2 kids, one at Lee and one at West Springfield who are generally equal levels of intelligence and accomplishment, the kid at Lee is probably going to stand out a lot more than the kid at West Springfield. His class rank will be higher and he will have less kids from his school applying to competitive colleges. That will give him better admissions chances. Of course, you might argue that if you send two kids of equal intelligence to two different schools like WS and Lee, the kid sent to Lee will be brought down by the presence of a larger population of lower performing students, and that certainly could happen.

Really, all of this underscores two things, in my opinion. One, a motivated kid can probably excel at just about any high school in Fairfax County, including Lee. Two, whether a particular kid has environments in which he or she will excel is often a personal and individualized question. Some kids will excel in an environment where they are a big fish in a little pond, while others will better excel in an environment where there are many other high achievers surrounding them. And, some kids will excel in either environment.

Most kids will do better at schools with larger cohorts of high achieving students. The evidence is pretty clear on that score.

Maybe in your opinion. The thing is, it is very difficult, if not impossible, to distinguish between causation and correlation with a lot of the so-called "evidence" to which I imagine you're referring. I don't doubt that most parents feel better about sending their kid to a HS surrounded by larger numbers of higher achieving students, but whether "most kids" will do better at such a school is very much a debatable matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd be willing to bet that if your final goal is to get into a Virginia state college you would be better off at Lee.

For all the reasons why West Springfield is better, it just makes it that much harder to be the kids that get accepted to the JMUs, Tech, UVA, ect...

I'd do the IB at Lee and have a smaller pond for college bound kids.

It's a suburban legend that kids at the smaller pond/IB schools have it easier getting into U. Va., etc.

Well, not really. If you knew anything about college admissions, you would understand. The thing is, if you take 2 kids, one at Lee and one at West Springfield who are generally equal levels of intelligence and accomplishment, the kid at Lee is probably going to stand out a lot more than the kid at West Springfield. His class rank will be higher and he will have less kids from his school applying to competitive colleges. That will give him better admissions chances. Of course, you might argue that if you send two kids of equal intelligence to two different schools like WS and Lee, the kid sent to Lee will be brought down by the presence of a larger population of lower performing students, and that certainly could happen.

Really, all of this underscores two things, in my opinion. One, a motivated kid can probably excel at just about any high school in Fairfax County, including Lee. Two, whether a particular kid has environments in which he or she will excel is often a personal and individualized question. Some kids will excel in an environment where they are a big fish in a little pond, while others will better excel in an environment where there are many other high achievers surrounding them. And, some kids will excel in either environment.

Most kids will do better at schools with larger cohorts of high achieving students. The evidence is pretty clear on that score.

Maybe in your opinion. The thing is, it is very difficult, if not impossible, to distinguish between causation and correlation with a lot of the so-called "evidence" to which I imagine you're referring. I don't doubt that most parents feel better about sending their kid to a HS surrounded by larger numbers of higher achieving students, but whether "most kids" will do better at such a school is very much a debatable matter.

Not really.

Have some college admissions stats from Lee you'd like to share?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd be willing to bet that if your final goal is to get into a Virginia state college you would be better off at Lee.

For all the reasons why West Springfield is better, it just makes it that much harder to be the kids that get accepted to the JMUs, Tech, UVA, ect...

I'd do the IB at Lee and have a smaller pond for college bound kids.

It's a suburban legend that kids at the smaller pond/IB schools have it easier getting into U. Va., etc.

Well, not really. If you knew anything about college admissions, you would understand. The thing is, if you take 2 kids, one at Lee and one at West Springfield who are generally equal levels of intelligence and accomplishment, the kid at Lee is probably going to stand out a lot more than the kid at West Springfield. His class rank will be higher and he will have less kids from his school applying to competitive colleges. That will give him better admissions chances. Of course, you might argue that if you send two kids of equal intelligence to two different schools like WS and Lee, the kid sent to Lee will be brought down by the presence of a larger population of lower performing students, and that certainly could happen.

Really, all of this underscores two things, in my opinion. One, a motivated kid can probably excel at just about any high school in Fairfax County, including Lee. Two, whether a particular kid has environments in which he or she will excel is often a personal and individualized question. Some kids will excel in an environment where they are a big fish in a little pond, while others will better excel in an environment where there are many other high achievers surrounding them. And, some kids will excel in either environment.

Most kids will do better at schools with larger cohorts of high achieving students. The evidence is pretty clear on that score.

Maybe in your opinion. The thing is, it is very difficult, if not impossible, to distinguish between causation and correlation with a lot of the so-called "evidence" to which I imagine you're referring. I don't doubt that most parents feel better about sending their kid to a HS surrounded by larger numbers of higher achieving students, but whether "most kids" will do better at such a school is very much a debatable matter.

Not really.

Have some college admissions stats from Lee you'd like to share?

And, perhaps, you have some evidence that proves this is not a debatable matter but rather settled truth?

[Anonymous]

What is the difference in the incidents of violence/aggression between these schools? What is the drop out rate? Teen pregnancy issues at either school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is the difference in the incidents of violence/aggression between these schools? What is the drop out rate? Teen pregnancy issues at either school?

School safety report cards are available here:

Lee - http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:2:6807958794624857:::0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID:160
West Springfield - http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:2:466787967753480:::0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID:150

2011 dropout rates by HS available here: http://www.fcps.edu/cco/pr/graderate2011table2.pdf
7% at Lee, 2.5% at West Springfield

No clue where you would find teen pregnancy statistics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the difference in the incidents of violence/aggression between these schools? What is the drop out rate? Teen pregnancy issues at either school?

School safety report cards are available here:

Lee - http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:2:6807958794624857:::0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID:160
West Springfield - http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:2:466787967753480:::0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID:150

2011 dropout rates by HS available here: http://www.fcps.edu/cco/pr/graderate2011table2.pdf
7% at Lee, 2.5% at West Springfield

No clue where you would find teen pregnancy statistics.

Well, the links to school safety report cards didn't seem to work. Look up each HS and then check the safe and secure tab. I'll try to cut and paste the stats

West Springfield:

Offenses 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13
Alcohol, Tobacco, And Other Drug Offenses 9 31 26
Disorderly Or Disruptive Behavior Offenses 16 13 16
Offenses Against Staff 0 1 0
Offenses Against Student 6 4 7
Other Offenses Against Persons 22 23 22
Property Offenses 4 8 2
Technology Offenses 0 0 1
Weapons Offenses 1 2 1
All Other Offenses 1 8 0

Lee:

Offenses 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13
Alcohol, Tobacco, And Other Drug Offenses 22 5 19
Disorderly Or Disruptive Behavior Offenses 131 132 73
Offenses Against Staff 5 0 2
Offenses Against Student 20 7 3
Other Offenses Against Persons 31 46 33
Property Offenses 17 10 3
Technology Offenses 1 2 0
Weapons Offenses 2 0 5
All Other Offenses 1 0 0

[Anonymous]

I always wonder how much discretion administrators have in classifying and reporting these events. They seem like the types of statistics that can be manipulated in order to claim that a principal is making a school a safer place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I always wonder how much discretion administrators have in classifying and reporting these events. They seem like the types of statistics that can be manipulated in order to claim that a principal is making a school a safer place.

Absolutely

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd be willing to bet that if your final goal is to get into a Virginia state college you would be better off at Lee.

For all the reasons why West Springfield is better, it just makes it that much harder to be the kids that get accepted to the JMUs, Tech, UVA, ect...

I'd do the IB at Lee and have a smaller pond for college bound kids.

It's a suburban legend that kids at the smaller pond/IB schools have it easier getting into U. Va., etc.

Well, not really. If you knew anything about college admissions, you would understand. The thing is, if you take 2 kids, one at Lee and one at West Springfield who are generally equal levels of intelligence and accomplishment, the kid at Lee is probably going to stand out a lot more than the kid at West Springfield. His class rank will be higher and he will have less kids from his school applying to competitive colleges. That will give him better admissions chances. Of course, you might argue that if you send two kids of equal intelligence to two different schools like WS and Lee, the kid sent to Lee will be brought down by the presence of a larger population of lower performing students, and that certainly could happen.

Really, all of this underscores two things, in my opinion. One, a motivated kid can probably excel at just about any high school in Fairfax County, including Lee. Two, whether a particular kid has environments in which he or she will excel is often a personal and individualized question. Some kids will excel in an environment where they are a big fish in a little pond, while others will better excel in an environment where there are many other high achievers surrounding them. And, some kids will excel in either environment.

Most kids will do better at schools with larger cohorts of high achieving students. The evidence is pretty clear on that score.

Actually, Malcolm Gladwell's book - David vs Golliath, is more supportive of the little pond theory and that GT isn't all it's cracked up to be.