Apparently all you have to do to get up the Dander of a Charter supporter...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because then you make it possible for rich people to buy into the best charter schools the way they can buy into the best public school districts. Some of us believe that random distribution of seats is more egalitarian.

Next question?

Surely there have to be some who are happy to keep out the low-income neighbors?

perhaps, but how long before even "bring your imagination and your contractor" is 750,000, pricing us out not just the poor but the middle class. There are way more rich people than houses in good school districts. How there are this many rich people in DC, I have no idea.

This is exactly how it is for Oyster, right? If it has worked for DCPS for decades, then why not do it for charters? Seems like a good idea.

Do you think the typical FARM family can afford to live in Woodley Park?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because then you make it possible for rich people to buy into the best charter schools the way they can buy into the best public school districts. Some of us believe that random distribution of seats is more egalitarian.

Next question?

Surely there have to be some who are happy to keep out the low-income neighbors?

perhaps, but how long before even "bring your imagination and your contractor" is 750,000, pricing us out not just the poor but the middle class. There are way more rich people than houses in good school districts. How there are this many rich people in DC, I have no idea.

This is exactly how it is for Oyster, right? If it has worked for DCPS for decades, then why not do it for charters? Seems like a good idea.

Do you think the typical FARM family can afford to live in Woodley Park?

Or any typical family. Oyster is my first choice school but just not an option for us, and we have a HHI of 200.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, I will admit to being lucky enough to be a JKLMer but I love the community and ease of being in a neighborhood school. And while I completely understand the above stated point - part of me thinks that if the charters had neighborhood preference then more people could enjoy that. Then again...only those with money which is not really the point. Comes back to the fact that we really need to fix DCPS more...somehow.

That's exactly why I oppose a neighborhood preference for charters -- it would mean that property values go up around the best schools, and as a result it would be yet another educational option dictated by your ability to afford expensive property. If you want a neighborhood school, that's what neighborhood DCPS are for.

I think if DC and DCPS made an active effort to court middle-class families it would benefit the system as a whole. If DC could improve its tax-base, and increase the overall numbers of engaged families, I think it would benefit everyone. People go on and on about a "baby boom" in DC, well, for decades on decades people have been having babies and leaving the city. If they want to improve schools, attract more families to stay beyond a few thousand in this so-called baby boom. If a small % of charter spots went to neighborhood preference and that attracted more families to remain in the city and increased the tax base, and you could create LAMB I-III, and I think it would benefit the entire city as a whole. Look at the big picture and not just whether every family could buy a house in charter neighborhood, but how that could strengthen the system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because then you make it possible for rich people to buy into the best charter schools the way they can buy into the best public school districts. Some of us believe that random distribution of seats is more egalitarian.

Next question?

Surely there have to be some who are happy to keep out the low-income neighbors?

perhaps, but how long before even "bring your imagination and your contractor" is 750,000, pricing us out not just the poor but the middle class. There are way more rich people than houses in good school districts. How there are this many rich people in DC, I have no idea.

This is exactly how it is for Oyster, right? If it has worked for DCPS for decades, then why not do it for charters? Seems like a good idea.

Do you think the typical FARM family can afford to live in Woodley Park?

Or any typical family. Oyster is my first choice school but just not an option for us, and we have a HHI of 200.

well, almost 200. Give it 5 years and every desirable charter would be like that if there was neighborhood preference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, I will admit to being lucky enough to be a JKLMer but I love the community and ease of being in a neighborhood school. And while I completely understand the above stated point - part of me thinks that if the charters had neighborhood preference then more people could enjoy that. Then again...only those with money which is not really the point. Comes back to the fact that we really need to fix DCPS more...somehow.

That's exactly why I oppose a neighborhood preference for charters -- it would mean that property values go up around the best schools, and as a result it would be yet another educational option dictated by your ability to afford expensive property. If you want a neighborhood school, that's what neighborhood DCPS are for.

I think if DC and DCPS made an active effort to court middle-class families it would benefit the system as a whole. If DC could improve its tax-base, and increase the overall numbers of engaged families, I think it would benefit everyone. People go on and on about a "baby boom" in DC, well, for decades on decades people have been having babies and leaving the city. If they want to improve schools, attract more families to stay beyond a few thousand in this so-called baby boom. If a small % of charter spots went to neighborhood preference and that attracted more families to remain in the city and increased the tax base, and you could create LAMB I-III, and I think it would benefit the entire city as a whole. Look at the big picture and not just whether every family could buy a house in charter neighborhood, but how that could strengthen the system.

If we don't get into a charter this year we leave for the suburbs because there is no neighborhood with good neighborhood schools and a 3 bedroom we can afford. None. Charters are our only hope. If charters had neighborhood proximity, we wouldn't even have that hope because any house in their zone would escalate beyond what we can afford, and we are very comfortably middle-class. As I mentioned earlier, we could stretch up to 650 and woudl make all kinds of compromises (window acs etc.). No three bedrooms for less than 650!

[Anonymous]

When you think about it, it's a defeatist positon for both charters and DCPS

1) Charters need small classes and tight communities committed to the program and philosophies in their charters. This doesn't work if a percentage of their population is just taking what thet can get and ready to bail when they find something better.

2) DCPS needs more families committed to raising the quality of neighborhood schools. They're less likely to do that if they've got a shot at a charter. Why consider Barnard ES, if you can get preference at EL Haynes, Creative Minds, and maybe Stokes, Cap City, and Yu Ying?

Giving neighborhood preference to charters says, "yeah...we're just not going to fix neighborhood schools."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When you think about it, it's a defeatist positon for both charters and DCPS

1) Charters need small classes and tight communities committed to the program and philosophies in their charters. This doesn't work if a percentage of their population is just taking what thet can get and ready to bail when they find something better.

2) DCPS needs more families committed to raising the quality of neighborhood schools. They're less likely to do that if they've got a shot at a charter. Why consider Barnard ES, if you can get preference at EL Haynes, Creative Minds, and maybe Stokes, Cap City, and Yu Ying?

Giving neighborhood preference to charters says, "yeah...we're just not going to fix neighborhood schools."

Give the lottery #'s and competition, pretty much everybody getting into a charter is just grateful to be there (first position) and then maybe they come to appreciate the philosophy later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you think about it, it's a defeatist positon for both charters and DCPS

1) Charters need small classes and tight communities committed to the program and philosophies in their charters. This doesn't work if a percentage of their population is just taking what thet can get and ready to bail when they find something better.

2) DCPS needs more families committed to raising the quality of neighborhood schools. They're less likely to do that if they've got a shot at a charter. Why consider Barnard ES, if you can get preference at EL Haynes, Creative Minds, and maybe Stokes, Cap City, and Yu Ying?

Giving neighborhood preference to charters says, "yeah...we're just not going to fix neighborhood schools."

Give the lottery #'s and competition, pretty much everybody getting into a charter is just grateful to be there (first position) and then maybe they come to appreciate the philosophy later.

The lotteries are no promise of anything. Neighborhood preference would allow families to have some sense of control, and would increase the number of charters I bet, as more families would stay in the city if the could. Most people I know would prefer to live in the city, but might move or have moved primarily for schools. Simple.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, I will admit to being lucky enough to be a JKLMer but I love the community and ease of being in a neighborhood school. And while I completely understand the above stated point - part of me thinks that if the charters had neighborhood preference then more people could enjoy that. Then again...only those with money which is not really the point. Comes back to the fact that we really need to fix DCPS more...somehow.

That's exactly why I oppose a neighborhood preference for charters -- it would mean that property values go up around the best schools, and as a result it would be yet another educational option dictated by your ability to afford expensive property. If you want a neighborhood school, that's what neighborhood DCPS are for.

I think if DC and DCPS made an active effort to court middle-class families it would benefit the system as a whole. If DC could improve its tax-base, and increase the overall numbers of engaged families, I think it would benefit everyone. People go on and on about a "baby boom" in DC, well, for decades on decades people have been having babies and leaving the city. If they want to improve schools, attract more families to stay beyond a few thousand in this so-called baby boom. If a small % of charter spots went to neighborhood preference and that attracted more families to remain in the city and increased the tax base, and you could create LAMB I-III, and I think it would benefit the entire city as a whole. Look at the big picture and not just whether every family could buy a house in charter neighborhood, but how that could strengthen the system.

If we don't get into a charter this year we leave for the suburbs because there is no neighborhood with good neighborhood schools and a 3 bedroom we can afford. None. Charters are our only hope. If charters had neighborhood proximity, we wouldn't even have that hope because any house in their zone would escalate beyond what we can afford, and we are very comfortably middle-class. As I mentioned earlier, we could stretch up to 650 and woudl make all kinds of compromises (window acs etc.). No three bedrooms for less than 650!

Can you do a 2-bedroom?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, I will admit to being lucky enough to be a JKLMer but I love the community and ease of being in a neighborhood school. And while I completely understand the above stated point - part of me thinks that if the charters had neighborhood preference then more people could enjoy that. Then again...only those with money which is not really the point. Comes back to the fact that we really need to fix DCPS more...somehow.

That's exactly why I oppose a neighborhood preference for charters -- it would mean that property values go up around the best schools, and as a result it would be yet another educational option dictated by your ability to afford expensive property. If you want a neighborhood school, that's what neighborhood DCPS are for.

I think if DC and DCPS made an active effort to court middle-class families it would benefit the system as a whole. If DC could improve its tax-base, and increase the overall numbers of engaged families, I think it would benefit everyone. People go on and on about a "baby boom" in DC, well, for decades on decades people have been having babies and leaving the city. If they want to improve schools, attract more families to stay beyond a few thousand in this so-called baby boom. If a small % of charter spots went to neighborhood preference and that attracted more families to remain in the city and increased the tax base, and you could create LAMB I-III, and I think it would benefit the entire city as a whole. Look at the big picture and not just whether every family could buy a house in charter neighborhood, but how that could strengthen the system.

If we don't get into a charter this year we leave for the suburbs because there is no neighborhood with good neighborhood schools and a 3 bedroom we can afford. None. Charters are our only hope. If charters had neighborhood proximity, we wouldn't even have that hope because any house in their zone would escalate beyond what we can afford, and we are very comfortably middle-class. As I mentioned earlier, we could stretch up to 650 and woudl make all kinds of compromises (window acs etc.). No three bedrooms for less than 650!

Can you do a 2-bedroom?

we are in a 700 sq. foot, two bedroom now. Boy and girl. it is unsustainable I hate this condo with all my heart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, I will admit to being lucky enough to be a JKLMer but I love the community and ease of being in a neighborhood school. And while I completely understand the above stated point - part of me thinks that if the charters had neighborhood preference then more people could enjoy that. Then again...only those with money which is not really the point. Comes back to the fact that we really need to fix DCPS more...somehow.

That's exactly why I oppose a neighborhood preference for charters -- it would mean that property values go up around the best schools, and as a result it would be yet another educational option dictated by your ability to afford expensive property. If you want a neighborhood school, that's what neighborhood DCPS are for.

I think if DC and DCPS made an active effort to court middle-class families it would benefit the system as a whole. If DC could improve its tax-base, and increase the overall numbers of engaged families, I think it would benefit everyone. People go on and on about a "baby boom" in DC, well, for decades on decades people have been having babies and leaving the city. If they want to improve schools, attract more families to stay beyond a few thousand in this so-called baby boom. If a small % of charter spots went to neighborhood preference and that attracted more families to remain in the city and increased the tax base, and you could create LAMB I-III, and I think it would benefit the entire city as a whole. Look at the big picture and not just whether every family could buy a house in charter neighborhood, but how that could strengthen the system.

Anyone who knows even a smidgen about education, charter schools and DC knows that "looking at the big picture" means you do NOT do neighborhood preference for charters. Guess what: there is no neighborhood preference for charters right now and DC is gentrifying at a rapid pace. Middle and upper class families are moving IN and staying more and more. And there's no neighborhood preference. Even if adding some neighborhood preference increased the amount of middle class, guess what else? THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH SEATS FOR EVERYONE.

All roads lead back to the same basic bottom line: DC's "looking at the big picture" priorities need to be improving the many neighborhood schools that already exist. Many of which exist in the very neighborhoods gentrifying at a rapid pace. No, not saying schools with 70% FARMS will turn into JKLMM next year. But I am saying that DC's priority in attracting and keeping more middle income families (while also not continuing to screw all low income families who haven't gotten into better charters or OOB schools) should be improving the schools that are already here so that ALL families that prioritize quality education will be interested.

The system will be weakened, not strengthened, by neighborhood preference for charters. You are pinpointing your narrow view of what will serve middle class families best (and you're wrong about what you're pinpointing), and you are not doing anything to really draw in more families by actually increasing the number of good/great seats in schools. Focus on that, that is focusing on "the big picture".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you think about it, it's a defeatist positon for both charters and DCPS

1) Charters need small classes and tight communities committed to the program and philosophies in their charters. This doesn't work if a percentage of their population is just taking what thet can get and ready to bail when they find something better.

2) DCPS needs more families committed to raising the quality of neighborhood schools. They're less likely to do that if they've got a shot at a charter. Why consider Barnard ES, if you can get preference at EL Haynes, Creative Minds, and maybe Stokes, Cap City, and Yu Ying?

Giving neighborhood preference to charters says, "yeah...we're just not going to fix neighborhood schools."

Give the lottery #'s and competition, pretty much everybody getting into a charter is just grateful to be there (first position) and then maybe they come to appreciate the philosophy later.

The lotteries are no promise of anything. Neighborhood preference would allow families to have some sense of control, and would increase the number of charters I bet, as more families would stay in the city if the could. Most people I know would prefer to live in the city, but might move or have moved primarily for schools. Simple.

Simple, really? Explain how giving neighborhood preference for the families that can afford to live close to charters, and giving this sense of control (which would primarily be a false sense of control), explain how that would lead to *increasing* the number of charters? Seriously, this is a good new crazy spin: how does neighborhood preference lead to more charters? And oh, while you're at it, since this neighborhood preference is only useful in popular neighborhoods, please do also explain where these schools will be located. Because, you know, there is such an abundance of available building space for charters in Wards 1, 2, 4 and 5. Can't wait for your explanations of these statements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, I will admit to being lucky enough to be a JKLMer but I love the community and ease of being in a neighborhood school. And while I completely understand the above stated point - part of me thinks that if the charters had neighborhood preference then more people could enjoy that. Then again...only those with money which is not really the point. Comes back to the fact that we really need to fix DCPS more...somehow.

That's exactly why I oppose a neighborhood preference for charters -- it would mean that property values go up around the best schools, and as a result it would be yet another educational option dictated by your ability to afford expensive property. If you want a neighborhood school, that's what neighborhood DCPS are for.

I think if DC and DCPS made an active effort to court middle-class families it would benefit the system as a whole. If DC could improve its tax-base, and increase the overall numbers of engaged families, I think it would benefit everyone. People go on and on about a "baby boom" in DC, well, for decades on decades people have been having babies and leaving the city. If they want to improve schools, attract more families to stay beyond a few thousand in this so-called baby boom. If a small % of charter spots went to neighborhood preference and that attracted more families to remain in the city and increased the tax base, and you could create LAMB I-III, and I think it would benefit the entire city as a whole. Look at the big picture and not just whether every family could buy a house in charter neighborhood, but how that could strengthen the system.

Anyone who knows even a smidgen about education, charter schools and DC knows that "looking at the big picture" means you do NOT do neighborhood preference for charters. Guess what: there is no neighborhood preference for charters right now and DC is gentrifying at a rapid pace. Middle and upper class families are moving IN and staying more and more. And there's no neighborhood preference. Even if adding some neighborhood preference increased the amount of middle class, guess what else? THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH SEATS FOR EVERYONE.

All roads lead back to the same basic bottom line: DC's "looking at the big picture" priorities need to be improving the many neighborhood schools that already exist. Many of which exist in the very neighborhoods gentrifying at a rapid pace. No, not saying schools with 70% FARMS will turn into JKLMM next year. But I am saying that DC's priority in attracting and keeping more middle income families (while also not continuing to screw all low income families who haven't gotten into better charters or OOB schools) should be improving the schools that are already here so that ALL families that prioritize quality education will be interested.

The system will be weakened, not strengthened, by neighborhood preference for charters. You are pinpointing your narrow view of what will serve middle class families best (and you're wrong about what you're pinpointing), and you are not doing anything to really draw in more families by actually increasing the number of good/great seats in schools. Focus on that, that is focusing on "the big picture".

PP here, okay, so fine, improve DCPS with neighborhood preference. The point is, another viewpoint is, the neighborhood-based seats could be at charters. I promise I am not a charter booster, and actually think there are real downsides to how split the system is in DC. But, given the system exists, why not exploit the strengths of the charters? And just to throw it out there for discussion, why not consider some % neighborhood preference if it convince people who were going to leave, to instead stay.

I really think there are still many people who would stay in DC longer, and still leave because of the schools. Baby boom or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, I will admit to being lucky enough to be a JKLMer but I love the community and ease of being in a neighborhood school. And while I completely understand the above stated point - part of me thinks that if the charters had neighborhood preference then more people could enjoy that. Then again...only those with money which is not really the point. Comes back to the fact that we really need to fix DCPS more...somehow.

That's exactly why I oppose a neighborhood preference for charters -- it would mean that property values go up around the best schools, and as a result it would be yet another educational option dictated by your ability to afford expensive property. If you want a neighborhood school, that's what neighborhood DCPS are for.

I think if DC and DCPS made an active effort to court middle-class families it would benefit the system as a whole. If DC could improve its tax-base, and increase the overall numbers of engaged families, I think it would benefit everyone. People go on and on about a "baby boom" in DC, well, for decades on decades people have been having babies and leaving the city. If they want to improve schools, attract more families to stay beyond a few thousand in this so-called baby boom. If a small % of charter spots went to neighborhood preference and that attracted more families to remain in the city and increased the tax base, and you could create LAMB I-III, and I think it would benefit the entire city as a whole. Look at the big picture and not just whether every family could buy a house in charter neighborhood, but how that could strengthen the system.

If we don't get into a charter this year we leave for the suburbs because there is no neighborhood with good neighborhood schools and a 3 bedroom we can afford. None. Charters are our only hope. If charters had neighborhood proximity, we wouldn't even have that hope because any house in their zone would escalate beyond what we can afford, and we are very comfortably middle-class. As I mentioned earlier, we could stretch up to 650 and woudl make all kinds of compromises (window acs etc.). No three bedrooms for less than 650!

Can you do a 2-bedroom?

but who would create Lamb I-III? This is not a chain. However, think about BASIS DC, that right now is a Title I school (40+% FARMS). You give a neighborhood preference, and wealthy people will try to take advantage of it immediately. Latin MS is 18.3% FARMS, and there are already so many sibs - 57 coming in next year. BASIS because it is so new does not have so many sibs, but were we not in we would totally move for it to get a 20% edge and so would a lot of other people who would like to turn it into what it is in Arizona - a private school. Latin and BASIS already have more diverse populations school wide than most DCPS schools, and charters like KIPP, if it ain't broke, don't fix it especially in a way that white people can take it over..........

[Anonymous]

The tax base is already here. The city is booming. The most desirable charters are not hurting for students; they are turning away hundreds of applicants. We need more seats, not to try to skew the distribution of the existing seats any more than they already are.