College/career advice for the humanities kid

[Anonymous]

11:39 here

Could not disagree more with this post. There's not question that the Liberal Arts are under fire today. Do they in and of themselves gurantee you a job such as a business degree would/could? Most likely no. But, you need to go into the process with the understanding of what a Liberal Arts degree can do for you. Teach you to think, write and communicate effecitvely. If your DS needs these skills to assist him a potential career down the road...he really ought to puruse this instead of STEM. The STEM appraoch is just not for everyone and thsoe who are forced into it are not happy. As one pp stated, the ultiamte goal here is for the DC to be happy in whatever pursuit they he/she chooses. We as parents need to provide direction but ultimately the choice is theirs not ours. Now, the above said, a humaniteis maajor can certainly fan out and take economics or courses that do touch on business. The foreign language is certainly helpful as well. International studies would be a real plus as well.

b/t/w....this post is NOT coming from a Liberal Arts professor worried about job security!!!!

I don't know what you disagree with here? I basically said that learning how to write and communicate is important, and STEM is not for everyone. What exactly are you disagreeing with?

11:39 I'm not sure your conclusions are evidence-based.

On average do humanities kids make less money than STEM majors, especially engineering? Sure. But the question is by how much. Here are some links that you might find informative. The one below indicates that over time, if you subtract out graduate degrees, the pay differential becomes not particularly significant (with, again, the exception of engineering). And on average, pre-professional degrees (such as business) don't necessarily make more than humanities degrees.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/01/money-is-a-terrible-way-to-measure-the-value-of-a-college-major/283290/

Here is another link that is very informative. It shows there are some hot areas, but in general, the differences are not nearly as stark as people on this board make them out to be:
http://chronicle.com/article/Median-Earnings-by-Major-and/127604/

There are some super hot fields, for example median earning for a petroleum engineer is 120K, for an aerospace engineer is 87K (although aero jobs are very competitive).

However, for a biological engineer, it is 55K, for a chemist it is 58K, for a biochemist it is 53K, for a environmental scientist it is 51K. Compare to some humanities majors--English is 48K, History is 57K, psychology is 50K. It seems like on average the kids who major in the humanities are statistically slightly worse off, but the degree to which they are is grossly over-exaggerated.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thank you for the comments so far. For those in the do what you love/learn to write camp, would you mind sharing the colleges the successful humanities kids you know have attended? My DS is not Ivy level, more like Kenyon or UVA level. I'm.wondering if the kids who have had success with humanities degrees went to large or small schools and how highly regarded those schools are? Thanks.

And, yes to the PP who asked if DH finds English more exciting than business! DH and I so value our humanities majors because studying what is good and beautiful enriches your life and makes you a more complete and interesting person. I know people he meets professionally are fascinated by DH's wide-ranging interests, and my somewhat unusual major made me more interesting to employers and probably helped me get into law school, along with the awards and fellowship I received in college because I was studying something I truly loved. Had I studied what I thought would most likely get me a job, I'm sure I would not have distinguished myself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for the comments so far. For those in the do what you love/learn to write camp, would you mind sharing the colleges the successful humanities kids you know have attended? My DS is not Ivy level, more like Kenyon or UVA level. I'm.wondering if the kids who have had success with humanities degrees went to large or small schools and how highly regarded those schools are? Thanks.

And, yes to the PP who asked if DH finds English more exciting than business! DH and I so value our humanities majors because studying what is good and beautiful enriches your life and makes you a more complete and interesting person. I know people he meets professionally are fascinated by DH's wide-ranging interests, and my somewhat unusual major made me more interesting to employers and probably helped me get into law school, along with the awards and fellowship I received in college because I was studying something I truly loved. Had I studied what I thought would most likely get me a job, I'm sure I would not have distinguished myself.

I think you've answered your own question.

[Anonymous]

Sure. I'm 17:17 and 11:39 and I went to Reed College. I have peers who studied humanities who went to other SLACs like Macalester, Oberlin, Amherst, and Swarthmore who have been successful. For those who aren't into SLACs, others have gone to places that are great schools but not ivy level, like Northwestern, Vanderbilt, and Wash U. Also schools that are a tier down, like American or NYU. Some have done well at large flagship state schools like Illinois, Wisconsin, UNC, Berkeley, or Michigan as well, however in a large environment like that you definitely have to be a self-starter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I majored in philosophy with a concentration in logic. My intention was to go to law school, so it didn't matter what I picked to major in in undergrad. It turns out I had no interest in practicing law, but my philo + logic set me up brilliantly for a career in programming.

I think you follow what you love with eyes wide open. Be aware of what careers you might be interested in. Find out what it takes to get internships in those areas & lay the groundwork. If you love art history, odds are you can take what you love and turn it into a worthwhile career.[/quote?

Curious question to the quoted poster above. Did you study programming in high school and in college? My DS is a high school senior very interested in philosophy, but his HS schedule didn't allow room to take programming and he hasn't pursued that on his own. Is it practical these days for a kid to take a few programming courses in college with no prior background? What courses should he consider in programming assuming he majors in philosophy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for the comments so far. For those in the do what you love/learn to write camp, would you mind sharing the colleges the successful humanities kids you know have attended? My DS is not Ivy level, more like Kenyon or UVA level. I'm.wondering if the kids who have had success with humanities degrees went to large or small schools and how highly regarded those schools are? Thanks.

And, yes to the PP who asked if DH finds English more exciting than business! DH and I so value our humanities majors because studying what is good and beautiful enriches your life and makes you a more complete and interesting person. I know people he meets professionally are fascinated by DH's wide-ranging interests, and my somewhat unusual major made me more interesting to employers and probably helped me get into law school, along with the awards and fellowship I received in college because I was studying something I truly loved. Had I studied what I thought would most likely get me a job, I'm sure I would not have distinguished myself.

I posted earlier re the experiences of my son and other recent grads of Columbia. DS also has friends from HS who went on to major in humanities or social sciences at Kenyon and UVA. Like the Columbia grads with those majors, it took more effort and time to find a job, but all have now found gainful and interestingly employment. I do think non-STEM majors should try to develop some quant and/or computer skills (design or programming), either through coursework, internships or extracurricular activities. They should also be prepared to live at home for a while and/or work a non-career job to support themselves while they look for something longer-term.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sure. I'm 17:17 and 11:39 and I went to Reed College. I have peers who studied humanities who went to other SLACs like Macalester, Oberlin, Amherst, and Swarthmore who have been successful. For those who aren't into SLACs, others have gone to places that are great schools but not ivy level, like Northwestern, Vanderbilt, and Wash U. Also schools that are a tier down, like American or NYU. Some have done well at large flagship state schools like Illinois, Wisconsin, UNC, Berkeley, or Michigan as well, however in a large environment like that you definitely have to be a self-starter.

I think the answer is that there are any number of places a student can go to find success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for the comments so far. For those in the do what you love/learn to write camp, would you mind sharing the colleges the successful humanities kids you know have attended? My DS is not Ivy level, more like Kenyon or UVA level. I'm.wondering if the kids who have had success with humanities degrees went to large or small schools and how highly regarded those schools are? Thanks.

And, yes to the PP who asked if DH finds English more exciting than business! DH and I so value our humanities majors because studying what is good and beautiful enriches your life and makes you a more complete and interesting person. I know people he meets professionally are fascinated by DH's wide-ranging interests, and my somewhat unusual major made me more interesting to employers and probably helped me get into law school, along with the awards and fellowship I received in college because I was studying something I truly loved. Had I studied what I thought would most likely get me a job, I'm sure I would not have distinguished myself.

Check out William & Mary.

[Anonymous]

In college your DS would be well served to advance as far in foreign language as he can, and advance as far in math as he can. I say "can" meaning as much as he as aptitude and motivation for. And if that happened to be none or close to none, I understand that too. Doors close, at some point, for everyone but it's nice to keep as many open for as long as possible.

[Anonymous]

I think it also has to do with the amount the liberal arts degree is going to cost and how it is going to be funded. Makes no sense to incur $100K+ in debt and end up with a degree that does not make him marketable.

This goes contrary to the b-s that college counselors pontificate about but the reality is that one of the major reasons why one gets a college degree is to get a decent well-paying job. The college counselor who goes on about following one's passion will have no role in making sure college loans are paid down the line. Sure, if the job market is healthy most college graduates will get a job that pays reasonably but when the market is tough, it is those with the right skills who will be the most sought.

One needs to adapt to the times and the economy today is not as it was twenty years ago.

[Anonymous]

I am a college career director. Make sure just to have your son do as many internships as possible. He can follow his chosen path that way. Liberal arts degrees are fine.

[Anonymous]

Adapt to the changing environment in terms of what opportunities exist in the job market. Get an education that enables you to get a job. It is all very well for counselors to offer advice that does not take into account the requirements of the job market but they are not the ones who have to find a job.

Like it or not the demands in today's environment are way different than they were two decades ago and one has to adapt those changes.

[Anonymous]

The issue is the job market is rapidly changing. Jobs exist that didn't exist 5-10 years ago. By the time you have your undergraduate (and especially if you go on to get graduate education) the current job market may be markedly different from where it is currently. Being adaptable, able to think critically, network, write, and learn quickly is important. Education can help enable this.