6th Grade Pyle, language vs. advanced reading

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At the Pyle orientation, it seemed that they were discouraging foreign language in 6th grade. They made the reading option seem very attractive and reminded parents that language is a high school course and the grade with remain on the high school transcript (not necessarily great for 6th graders who are acclimating to middle school). We will opt for reading over language and our DS is a very advanced reader. It was not presented as a course for those needing "extra help."

This was our sense too, when we attended for our now 7th grader. Interestingly, when we went for our now 9th grader, they were definitely recommending that students take the language class in 6th grade so they could get a start on getting their language credits out of the way--that was back in the days when they were pushing the accelerated math as well. For our older child, I didn't care what anyone recommended. I was horrified by the idea of a 6th grade class grade going onto a high school transcript. I had imagined Pyle would be a much more overwhelming experience for her (based on nothing really--she'd been an excellent student in elementary school), and wanted to give her a chance to acclimate without too much pressure as PP described it.

In the end, they both did advanced reading in 6th and the A language class in 7th (French A for one, Spanish A for the other). Knowing what I do now, I have no doubt that both kids could have handled a language A/B class just fine in 6th grade, and they both thought advanced reading was boring. We don't have regrets though, in part because we think language classes are really important and like the idea of them getting a very good foundation and not rushing through the classes. Most of our friends did the A/B option in either 6th or 7th grade, but we recommended that our kids choose the A option since most of their other courses are advanced and they have some serious extracurriculars that require large time committments. We left the decision to them, and it has worked out very well so far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But they get the HS credits for the middle school classes. They take the same exams. They are on the HS transcript. The college just sees Spanish 1a whether you take it in 6th grade or 12th. Some kids are entering high school with that college requirement taken care of.

It is not like math where there is a state req that you take math for 4 years in HS regardless of how advanced you start. That is where kids can get hurt by too much advancement.

This is exactly what I thought, until a high school guidance counselor informed me otherwise last week. She specifically said that colleges want to see that at least some of the language classes are completed in high school. That's the first time I had heard that.

PP again. To be clear, she was likely speaking of more selective colleges, not all colleges, but those were her words.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:most kids are going to be screwed with the language requirement by the time they are in high school if they take 3 years in MS.

Why?

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See comments above. Colleges want to see HIGH SCHOOl language credits, so if you're entering HS with 3 credits already, you've got to keep going into upper level language courses. Which is great for the kid who wants to go that far in a language. The kids who would be "screwed" are the ones more interested in banking the requisite number of credits for the college app.

Forgive me, NP here, I still don't get it... in terms of a college app, they would show a higher proficiency in the language by continuing to take it in HS, so wouldn't that give them a leg up? Is the point being made that they're screwed because it takes away the option to only do the minimum with language? Regardless, if they'd wind up having to do credits while in HS anyway, there wouldn't be harm in getting farther ahead, right- or am I missing something?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:most kids are going to be screwed with the language requirement by the time they are in high school if they take 3 years in MS.

Why?

\

See comments above. Colleges want to see HIGH SCHOOl language credits, so if you're entering HS with 3 credits already, you've got to keep going into upper level language courses. Which is great for the kid who wants to go that far in a language. The kids who would be "screwed" are the ones more interested in banking the requisite number of credits for the college app.

Forgive me, NP here, I still don't get it... in terms of a college app, they would show a higher proficiency in the language by continuing to take it in HS, so wouldn't that give them a leg up? Is the point being made that they're screwed because it takes away the option to only do the minimum with language? Regardless, if they'd wind up having to do credits while in HS anyway, there wouldn't be harm in getting farther ahead, right- or am I missing something?

you take spanish 1 in 6th then the next clas ec etc when you get to 9th you have to take 4 then in 123th grade spanish 6???

they will tell you it is better to take thsoe in high school getting high school credit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:most kids are going to be screwed with the language requirement by the time they are in high school if they take 3 years in MS.

Why?

\

See comments above. Colleges want to see HIGH SCHOOl language credits, so if you're entering HS with 3 credits already, you've got to keep going into upper level language courses. Which is great for the kid who wants to go that far in a language. The kids who would be "screwed" are the ones more interested in banking the requisite number of credits for the college app.

Forgive me, NP here, I still don't get it... in terms of a college app, they would show a higher proficiency in the language by continuing to take it in HS, so wouldn't that give them a leg up? Is the point being made that they're screwed because it takes away the option to only do the minimum with language? Regardless, if they'd wind up having to do credits while in HS anyway, there wouldn't be harm in getting farther ahead, right- or am I missing something?

No, you've got it right for the most part. But I would add that it's not just about kids looking to do the minimum, it's also about kids thinking they could get the credits out of the way in MS so they'd be able to take other electives in HS.

[Anonymous]

I agree that in the RM cluster they push the languages in JW meeting. My daughter ended up not going there but it was strange because 80% of her friends took a language and then there is no more reading? They already have such little reading/comprehension/writing/vocabulary in school.

And I also heard that the language classes are by far the easiest. Not challenging at all.

I think reading would be so much more beneficial for everyone. If the county could get their act together, they would group them according the levels instead of just gathering all levels in one class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree that this sounds different from what I've heard about our DCC middle school, where foreign language in 6th is the norm for higher-achieving students. I'm not sure if most students take a or a/b.

This is definitely the case at TPMS. My DC and most of the friends I know have been taking a language since 6th grade, most the a/b option. I don't even know if they offer advanced reading.

[Anonymous]

'and then there is no more reading? They already have such little reading/comprehension/writing/vocabulary in school"

All of this is included in English...

"And I also heard that the language classes are by far the easiest. Not challenging at all. "
This depends on the kid. If you have an easy time memorizing vocab and spelling, they are ok. If you struggle , they are very difficult. The volume of words is large.

[Anonymous]

Forget the reading - they can do it at home. The kids need grammar, spelling & basic writing. The "norms" are horrible - 6th grade Advanced English kids are routinely making mistakes with punctuation.

[Anonymous]

Have them take the Reading. it really is a good class. Current 6th grade parent of a kid at Pyle.

[Anonymous]

Another Pyle parent here (8th grader). Even if your kid is bright and motivated and a good reader, reading is a good class. My kid is a 99th percentile reader and it was definitely worthwhile. And since most kids who forego reading end up doing just the 'A' section of a foreign language in 6th grade (and presumably 'B' in 7th), there isn't really a net gain. Do reading in 6th, and language 1AB in 7th.

It's true that colleges want to see at least three years of the same foreign language IN HIGH SCHOOL, and even better that they should exhaust the high school's offerings in their chosen language. At Whitman, I think there are some languages that go up to level 6. So two full years in middle school followed by four years in high school is possible.

[Anonymous]

Um, don't you all just want your kids to learn the language?
I hope to have DD take it in 6th, then hopefully get to Spanish 5 in HS. Then from there, who knows...who cares.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Forget the reading - they can do it at home. The kids need grammar, spelling & basic writing. The "norms" are horrible - 6th grade Advanced English kids are routinely making mistakes with punctuation.

Because they aren't taught that in elementary school EVER! No grammar, no diagraming sentences, no punctuation. No vocabulary. Only spelling which ironically is the least important later in school since there is spell check.
English should be ALL grammar and vocab with writing skills. Reading should be ALL reading, comprehension with added writen papers to prove comprehension and reiterate English skills.