Choosing parochial for the money?

[Anonymous]

I'm a devout Catholic and I'm on DC Urban Moms daily, and I don't hate my fellow Catholics. I wouldn't agree that Catholic schools are held in low regard here. I think most of the comments are truthful analysis based on personal experiences. But it's easy for Catholics to believe they are being descriminated against because so often in the past, they were.

[Anonymous]

You cannot get an unbiased opinion on anything Catholic on dcum.

[Anonymous]

Our family is interested in Catholic schools, but didn't grow up in them as we are not Catholic. However, we are Lutheran and so are attracted to the idea of schools with religious content.

But we are also more on the progressive side in educational philosophy, and are really concerned with fostering positive experiences, ensuring a nurturing environment, and so on. In other words, comments about Catholic schools being needlessly strict or rigidly traditional worries me.

Is this a common experience in contemporary Catholic schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a devout Catholic and I'm on DC Urban Moms daily, and I don't hate my fellow Catholics. I wouldn't agree that Catholic schools are held in low regard here. I think most of the comments are truthful analysis based on personal experiences. But it's easy for Catholics to believe they are being descriminated against because so often in the past, they were.

Much of the experience is 1) from their childhood and 2) from Bethesda and NW DC parish schools (where people are snobby, rude and insular). I don't think you can extrapolate those experiences to "truthful analysis" of all parochial school and private Catholic schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a non-Catholic I can say with confidence that yes, some of the local parochiaol schools are solid academically although only one or two are even close to as good as the top privates. Look at Holy Trinity, Blessed Sacrament and maybe Little Flower or OLV. I know families/kids at each of these and they are getting solid academic instruction.

+1 here. Just moved to DC and did a bunch of research on the nearby Catholic schools. We ended up in NoVa so our kids are not at these schools, but they were part of my research.

PP, Based on your research are there any additional schools in DC and NOVA that should be added to those mentioned above?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a non-Catholic I can say with confidence that yes, some of the local parochiaol schools are solid academically although only one or two are even close to as good as the top privates. Look at Holy Trinity, Blessed Sacrament and maybe Little Flower or OLV. I know families/kids at each of these and they are getting solid academic instruction.

+1 here. Just moved to DC and did a bunch of research on the nearby Catholic schools. We ended up in NoVa so our kids are not at these schools, but they were part of my research.

PP, Based on your research are there any additional schools in DC and NOVA that should be added to those mentioned above?

Specifically, what about St. Mary's in Old Town?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a devout Catholic and I'm on DC Urban Moms daily, and I don't hate my fellow Catholics. I wouldn't agree that Catholic schools are held in low regard here. I think most of the comments are truthful analysis based on personal experiences. But it's easy for Catholics to believe they are being descriminated against because so often in the past, they were.

I think the problem is that, while some parochial schools are great and many are good, they can't really compare with the many top-notch privates or public schools in the area, so they end up attracting either folks who can't get into either, or who are driven mostly by Catholic beliefs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a devout Catholic and I'm on DC Urban Moms daily, and I don't hate my fellow Catholics. I wouldn't agree that Catholic schools are held in low regard here. I think most of the comments are truthful analysis based on personal experiences. But it's easy for Catholics to believe they are being descriminated against because so often in the past, they were.

I think the problem is that, while some parochial schools are great and many are good, they can't really compare with the many top-notch privates or public schools in the area, so they end up attracting either folks who can't get into either, or who are driven mostly by Catholic beliefs.

Not buying that it's people who can't get in. We have no problem getting into the top notch privates. We do have major trouble affording top notch privates. I bet a lot are like us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a devout Catholic and I'm on DC Urban Moms daily, and I don't hate my fellow Catholics. I wouldn't agree that Catholic schools are held in low regard here. I think most of the comments are truthful analysis based on personal experiences. But it's easy for Catholics to believe they are being descriminated against because so often in the past, they were.

I think the problem is that, while some parochial schools are great and many are good, they can't really compare with the many top-notch privates or public schools in the area, so they end up attracting either folks who can't get into either, or who are driven mostly by Catholic beliefs.

Not buying that it's people who can't get in. We have no problem getting into the top notch privates. We do have major trouble affording top notch privates. I bet a lot are like us.

Net net it's the same. Parochial is your second, not first, choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a devout Catholic and I'm on DC Urban Moms daily, and I don't hate my fellow Catholics. I wouldn't agree that Catholic schools are held in low regard here. I think most of the comments are truthful analysis based on personal experiences. But it's easy for Catholics to believe they are being descriminated against because so often in the past, they were.

I think the problem is that, while some parochial schools are great and many are good, they can't really compare with the many top-notch privates or public schools in the area, so they end up attracting either folks who can't get into either, or who are driven mostly by Catholic beliefs.

Not buying that it's people who can't get in. We have no problem getting into the top notch privates. We do have major trouble affording top notch privates. I bet a lot are like us.

Net net it's the same. Parochial is your second, not first, choice.

Correct, but you were implying that the student body was lower quality. I don't buy that part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a devout Catholic and I'm on DC Urban Moms daily, and I don't hate my fellow Catholics. I wouldn't agree that Catholic schools are held in low regard here. I think most of the comments are truthful analysis based on personal experiences. But it's easy for Catholics to believe they are being descriminated against because so often in the past, they were.

Av
I think the problem is that, while some parochial schools are great and many are good, they can't really compare with the many top-notch privates or public schools in the area, so they end up attracting either folks who can't get into either, or who are driven mostly by Catholic beliefs.

Why can't. They compare? Can you give specific examples as to how the top privates offer a better education than the catholic schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having tried Catholic as a protestant, I would discourage it. The "better attention" my child got (not) was punitive and shaming. The mom culture was very clique-ish and gossipy. The teachers often have very poor credentials and no real understanding of how to teach. The test scores, facilities and teaching standards (and salaries) are much better in some publics, like VA. Depending on the quality of your state schools, I would go private or public, but never again Catholic.

Agree 100%. Our story was as follows: Left a good in-boundary public school to attend Catholic. K and 1st grade were the best years, but began to see the shortcomings in the curriculum and teacher experience and skills starting in 2nd grade. By 3rd grade, we knew we needed to leave or our child would be disadvantaged academically. Returned to the in-boundary public school and realized DC was behind academically. Spend the whole year catching up and building a foundation that was not there coming from the Catholic school. From public school, went on to private school for middle school. We are thankful we went back to the public school because we are certain DC would not have gotten into his current school from the Catholic school. I will add another observation. The teachers and staff were overly punitive especially with boys. Your child will be quick to be labeled a problem student if they do not fall in line. And, if they have ADHD or any learning issues, the staff were not trained to deal with them or provide accomodations. To my knowledge, Catholic teachers are not required to be certified like public school teachers. So, no I would not choose parochial to save money.

Could not agree more with every single point PP made above.

[Anonymous]

Our kids are at a Catholic school too far out for OP but the academics are amazing there. Unfortunately, the school is cliquish but I am willing to deal with that to give my kids a superior education to my "wonderful" MCPS public school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having tried Catholic as a protestant, I would discourage it. The "better attention" my child got (not) was punitive and shaming. The mom culture was very clique-ish and gossipy. The teachers often have very poor credentials and no real understanding of how to teach. The test scores, facilities and teaching standards (and salaries) are much better in some publics, like VA. Depending on the quality of your state schools, I would go private or public, but never again Catholic.

Agree 100%. Our story was as follows: Left a good in-boundary public school to attend Catholic. K and 1st grade were the best years, but began to see the shortcomings in the curriculum and teacher experience and skills starting in 2nd grade. By 3rd grade, we knew we needed to leave or our child would be disadvantaged academically. Returned to the in-boundary public school and realized DC was behind academically. Spend the whole year catching up and building a foundation that was not there coming from the Catholic school. From public school, went on to private school for middle school. We are thankful we went back to the public school because we are certain DC would not have gotten into his current school from the Catholic school. I will add another observation. The teachers and staff were overly punitive especially with boys. Your child will be quick to be labeled a problem student if they do not fall in line. And, if they have ADHD or any learning issues, the staff were not trained to deal with them or provide accomodations. To my knowledge, Catholic teachers are not required to be certified like public school teachers. So, no I would not choose parochial to save money.

Could not agree more with every single point PP made above.

Not to take away from these experiences, but these are just that - very personal experiences based on specific schools and specific students with a unique learning profile. Without knowing what schools are being discussed and the child's learning type, these anecdotes are not helpful to people researching parochial (Catholic) elementary schools. One cannot make a generic statement saying all Catholic schools are subpar without some substantiation. There is a wide range of Catholic schools as has been mentioned previously. Some are old school, traditional and conservative while others are moderate to more progressive in terms of staying current with educational best practices and delivering a 21st century educational model. This will come through when reading a school's literature, going to Open Houses, talking to teachers and learning about their instructional styles, etc. In some cities, Catholic school academics far exceed public. Here in the DMV area with so many strong public and charter school options, Catholic schools are not necessarily providing an academic edge but some are on par. It really depends on where you live and your available school options. I live in a weak public school pyramid in a district that people rave about in these forums so I am considering Catholic school for my child. I am also a product of Catholic schools (K-12) in another area and had a great experience so I am more open to the idea. In terms of facilities, the Catholic elementary schools may not have a rock climbing wall, auditorium, fully outfitted science lab, or kiln in the art room so if those types of things are important, definitely look elsewhere. Some/many families who choose Catholic schools are fully aware of these types of shortfalls going in and supplement their child's education if/where needed. I would agree that gifted and special needs students are better served in public schools that have more resources.

A good starting point when looking at Catholic vs. public is to compare the curriculum and standards between the schools involved. Do you want Common Core or standards that meet or exceed Common Core? For example, Archdiocese of Washington school standards exceed Common Core. Do you care? Realize that schools can follow the same standards but implement different curriculum to meet those standards. Research the textbooks and instructional approaches used. The material might be published somewhere on a school's website or you can ask. Look at teacher credentials and experience and realize that teachers come and go. Look at the overall quality of teachers being hired. Research the principal's background, vision for the school and efficacy as a leader. Are character education and community service important to you for your child? Are you looking for rigorous academics, more developmentally-appropriate academics that focus on the "whole child" or a balance between the two? Look at classroom sizes and school size. More than one class per grade tends to provide better social dynamics for students especially during the middle school years. How important is the PK/K-8 model for you/your child? Find out what high school admissions people are reporting back to the elementary school about how well-prepared their graduates are? An active PTA that is funding school-wide improvements to support instruction, learning and curriculum development is another good indicator. I have done all of this type of research for my own analysis and it's been very helpful!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having tried Catholic as a protestant, I would discourage it. The "better attention" my child got (not) was punitive and shaming. The mom culture was very clique-ish and gossipy. The teachers often have very poor credentials and no real understanding of how to teach. The test scores, facilities and teaching standards (and salaries) are much better in some publics, like VA. Depending on the quality of your state schools, I would go private or public, but never again Catholic.

Agree 100%. Our story was as follows: Left a good in-boundary public school to attend Catholic. K and 1st grade were the best years, but began to see the shortcomings in the curriculum and teacher experience and skills starting in 2nd grade. By 3rd grade, we knew we needed to leave or our child would be disadvantaged academically. Returned to the in-boundary public school and realized DC was behind academically. Spend the whole year catching up and building a foundation that was not there coming from the Catholic school. From public school, went on to private school for middle school. We are thankful we went back to the public school because we are certain DC would not have gotten into his current school from the Catholic school. I will add another observation. The teachers and staff were overly punitive especially with boys. Your child will be quick to be labeled a problem student if they do not fall in line. And, if they have ADHD or any learning issues, the staff were not trained to deal with them or provide accomodations. To my knowledge, Catholic teachers are not required to be certified like public school teachers. So, no I would not choose parochial to save money.

I completely agree. We had a horrible experience in a parochial school. The teachers were not trained in differentiation and couldn't give a damn about ADHD or any other issue. Once your boy is labeled "difficult", it's over - your boy is targeted. Then it becomes punitive and shaming. We moved to private. Same kid has made honor roll seven quarters in a row, straight As, making Eagle Scout.