Confused about the HCG testing process

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

No. My guess is that they fill the seats with those kids who are top scorers in all three sections. And that is the reason that some schools (like Coldspring ES) where competition is higher and kids are more prepared...the cut-off is higher than other HGCs.

In my DC's home school - the principal, asst. principal, counselors, 2nd and 3rd grade teachers sat together and discussed the files of each child. My DC's home room teacher had told me to make DC apply for HGC because she said she will advocate for DC, as she thought DC would be a perfect fit. I did rely on her input because we all think that our kids are special, but the teachers who are seeing hundreds of children in their classrooms have a better idea of who would be a good fit.

This function may play much more of a role in the selection process than the objective HGC test you'll are bellyaching over in a number of cases. This is easily masked by presenting only the median score so one can't easily figure this out...beyond half scored higher than and half score lower than. How many high scorers were rejected vs how many low scorers were accepted?

I see where the posters are coming from, they have a point and I have not heard them disagree or object to the process...simply informing.

Who's masking? MCPS explicitly says that teacher recommendations are one of the criteria.

[Anonymous]

Then why don't they give the median with range and quartiles for all the HGCs? Is this highly, highly, classified information?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Then why don't they give the median with range and quartiles for all the HGCs? Is this highly, highly, classified information?

Why should they give the information? Really? Why? What difference does it make?

The definition of transparency is not "you have to tell me everything I want to know".

[Anonymous]

Why should they give the information? Really? Why? What difference does it make?

The definition of transparency is not "you have to tell me everything I want to know".

Please tell us the definition of transparency?
Thanks in advance.

[Anonymous]

Well, I'm not surprised at all. This just tells me DC has to score really high, well above the median, to be even considered... since he's seen as completely dumb and unmotivated by his IEP team

[Anonymous]

You are right. This is where selection bias may come into play in certain schools and communities in MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Why should they give the information? Really? Why? What difference does it make?

The definition of transparency is not "you have to tell me everything I want to know".

Please tell us the definition of transparency?
Thanks in advance.

You're asking me for a dictionary definition of transparency?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transparency

[Anonymous]

Well, I'm not surprised at all. This just tells me DC has to score really high, well above the median, to be even considered... since he's seen as completely dumb and unmotivated by his IEP team

Therefore, scoring super high and outside corrobation may come into play with a potential appeal provided you are prepared to see it through and jump through the hoops. It is never too early to begin to lineup your ducks in the cases where bias is obvious...and in the case you may need it for later.

[Anonymous]

You're asking me for a dictionary definition of transparency?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transparency

I am sorry you did not read or understand the question. That's fine; par for the course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Then why don't they give the median with range and quartiles for all the HGCs? Is this highly, highly, classified information?

I would like to understand what purpose would be served for MCPS to favor one child over another? I can understand to an extent that they would like to make it diverse so that race and SES could play a role (I have nothing to back this up - its a guess). However, admitting a child who cannot succeed in the program would be detrimental for the center, HGC and the child.

You do understand that you can ask to see your child's answer sheet (or Scantron) for the test? And in our litigation happy society, the teacher's recommendations will have to be backed up to an extent by a pattern of success. So, I am guessing (and I could be wrong), the school while making a recommendation could also be looking at the whole profile of the student. They could look at Raven, InView etc. as well to say that this child scored in the 97 percentile in these tests in 2nd grade, has a great 2nd grade report card, did well in the HGC admissions test, etc.

I know of one set of parents who asked to open the file of their child and went through what the teacher has written for the recommendation. The recommendation was lukewarm at best, but the teacher was able to back it up with all the test results of the child vs. how the top performers were doing in the student's grade.

The median with the range and quartiles for all HGC is not given because 1)from year to year, and HGC to HGC, these numbers are moving targets, 2) The application and input from teachers are also weighed and 3) some of these criteria are subjective and not easily quantifiable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You're asking me for a dictionary definition of transparency?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transparency

I am sorry you did not read or understand the question. That's fine; par for the course.

?

The question was, "Please tell us the definition of transparency."

But you're right, I didn't tell you the definition of transparency; I only provided a link to the definition of transparency. So now I will tell you:

Definition of TRANSPARENCY
1: something transparent; especially : a picture (as on film) viewed by light shining through it or by projection
2: the quality or state of being transparent

Examples of TRANSPARENCY

the transparency of a piece of glass
the transparency of their motives
He says that there needs to be more transparency in the way the government operates.
The professor used transparencies and an overhead projector during her lectures.

First Known Use of TRANSPARENCY
1591
Related to TRANSPARENCY

Synonyms
clearness, limpidity, limpidness, lucency, translucence, translucency, clarity

Antonyms
cloudiness, opacity, opaqueness, turbidity, turbidness

Related Words
brightness, brilliance, effulgence, luminosity, luminousness; definition, resolution, sharpness; apparentness, observability, visibility

Near Antonyms
fogginess, haziness, milkiness, mistiness, murkiness

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can understand to an extent that they would like to make it diverse so that race and SES could play a role (I have nothing to back this up - its a guess).

MCPS may not consider race/ethnicity.

http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/edu/cp532/2000_cases/mccann.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No. My guess is that they fill the seats with those kids who are top scorers in all three sections. And that is the reason that some schools (like Coldspring ES) where competition is higher and kids are more prepared...the cut-off is higher than other HGCs.

In my DC's home school - the principal, asst. principal, counselors, 2nd and 3rd grade teachers sat together and discussed the files of each child. My DC's home room teacher had told me to make DC apply for HGC because she said she will advocate for DC, as she thought DC would be a perfect fit. I did rely on her input because we all think that our kids are special, but the teachers who are seeing hundreds of children in their classrooms have a better idea of who would be a good fit.

This function may play much more of a role in the selection process than the objective HGC test you'll are bellyaching over in a number of cases. This is easily masked by presenting only the median score so one can't easily figure this out...beyond half scored higher than and half score lower than. How many high scorers were rejected vs how many low scorers were accepted?

I see where the posters are coming from, they have a point and I have not heard them disagree or object to the process...simply informing.

Who's masking? MCPS explicitly says that teacher recommendations are one of the criteria.

I am the PP who wrote about my DC's teacher advocating for him. He was the youngest kid in the class (early entrance), and his scores on Raven, Inview and TN2 - were off the charts. However, I did not proceed until the conversation with the homeroom teacher, because how do I know how he is interacting on a day to day basis with others in the class room? He could be smart but a misfit in a situation that needed collaborative work?

Sometimes a very bright kid may need the normalcy of a home school instead of the structure that an HGC offers. I know parents whose kids got in but they were not inclined to send their kids to the HGC. We all are trying to do what we think is the best for our children. Teachers are interacting with your kid everyday and are a valuable resource in getting a sense of how well they would suit in an HGC or Magnet. You need to be willing to listen to what they are saying without getting defensive. They have no axe to grind in this issue.

[Anonymous]

When I was in public school many years ago I do recall the local politics: the teacher's pets, the family/sib pets, the parent pets and the PTA pets and how some of sought after placement decisions were made when the principal and teacher got together to engineer the process.

I remember some parents some teachers hated (overhearing remarks in the corridors) and later screwed using their children (similar to a child in the middle of a nasty divorce with parents).

It think this happens between some parents and teachers/principals. It's natural -- particularly at the "touchy feely" elementary school level.

It may happen in the HGC selection process as the recommended kid list form a particular school may be influenced by this screen/recommendation in house process and have nothing to do with high scores.

[Anonymous]

I know of a kid with Raven off the chart score in high 50s and high test in scores that did not get in. I don't know why? I don't really care. My child got in. That's all that counts.

But my child comes home and tells us ( on 2 or 3 occasions this year) she and her classmates think the kid is one of the top students in the whole school while indicating they do not know how many of their center peers actually got in over the child.

Out of the mouths of babes.