lifestyle for $500K HHI

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious how this is for others too. We are closer to 400k but we can't seem to wrap our heads around the fact that this is what doing well in this economy in DC looks like. Our money goes to mortgage, one car payment, student loans, max out 401k, childcare so we can remain in our busy jobs, preschool, life insurance and other insurances (homeowner, car, etc). We don't worry about money day to day in terms of buying food out at lunchtime, family meals out a few times a month, babysitters here and there, but I can't remember the last time we had money to pay for a nice vacation or buy a new piece of furniture. Our house is a close-in townhouse so we can get to our jobs with modest commutes that is 3 bedrooms and we can't figure out how we will afford to move to anything bigger in a good school district. Private school is impossible to pay for long term, at least with current childcare costs.

We make half of what you make, pay for all the same things you do except for student loans, and put extra money in savings each month. Don't feel pinched, and realize how fortunate we are compared to many people. I realize student loans can be high-but I doubt you're spending an extra $200k of salary a year on them.

Not PP, but our HHI is 200k and we spend $24,000 on student loans a year. It can be a big number if you are trying to pay them off.

[Anonymous]

Here You can live a traditional middle class lifestyle in a good area for about 350. The biggest bills are housing and childcare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is what I see:

$1-1.4m house
Nice but not extravagant cars (Acura or Lexus. No AMG or M class)
1 week of skiing in winter
2 weeks of summer vacation at the beach
A few expensive weekends away
Retirement and college funds are well funded
Private school for kids

This pretty spot on. You can also afford a maid once or maybe twice a week. And you can do $100 dinners with friends without thinking. ($100 for you and spouse). You can on special occasions afford very expensive dinners ( ie city zen, kinkeads, inn at little washington). You can every few years afford a very high end vacation (Ie African Safari), but definitely fly coach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here You can live a traditional middle class lifestyle in a good area for about 350. The biggest bills are housing and childcare.

I don't want to get baited into this, but, wth are you talking about? I love the "middle class lifestyle" argument. At 500k, your are clearing, wait for it, about $25k per month after fed and state taxes/self employment tax/AMT etc. Donna Reed didn't have a $5k month blow habit. The Beaver's mom didn't spend 3 weeks in Africa at an point in her life (even flying coach). This ain't middle class. Middle class is spending a week in a crappy house, that isn't on the beach, in Ocean City. No flying. No cleaning service. No weekend getaways or Acuras. You're all nuts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here You can live a traditional middle class lifestyle in a good area for about 350. The biggest bills are housing and childcare.

I don't want to get baited into this, but, wth are you talking about? I love the "middle class lifestyle" argument. At 500k, your are clearing, wait for it, about $25k per month after fed and state taxes/self employment tax/AMT etc. Donna Reed didn't have a $5k month blow habit. The Beaver's mom didn't spend 3 weeks in Africa at an point in her life (even flying coach). This ain't middle class. Middle class is spending a week in a crappy house, that isn't on the beach, in Ocean City. No flying. No cleaning service. No weekend getaways or Acuras. You're all nuts.

Add it up compare it to the brady bunch with both parents working two kids.
Today:
Decent house starts at 1 million 4500
One toyota Camry 450
One toyota highlander suv 450
Cleaning 250
Nanny or daycare 2800
College saving 350
401k savings 800
College loans 1200
Utilities 600
Food 900
Gas or transportation 400
Savings 350

[Anonymous]

That's too much $$$ on cars and not enough in retirement or college savings a.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Add it up compare it to the brady bunch with both parents working two kids.
Today:
Decent house starts at 1 million 4500 (of course, only north Arlington is worth living in)
One toyota Camry 450 (middle class doesn't buy new cars)
One toyota highlander suv 450 (oh give me a break)
Cleaning 250 (this isn't a middle class expense)
Nanny or daycare 2800 (you'd probably go in home, so a little lower)
College saving 350 (nice dream, maybe 350/year--you're counting on loans)
401k savings 800 (if you're lucky-that's a lot of money on a middle class salary)
College loans 1200 (my state ones are much lower, but I don't have a fair comparison to make)
Utilities 600 (for your small house, probably closer to 250-300)
Food 900 (225 a week??)
Gas or transportation 400
Savings 350 (if you're lucky)

All of that isn't middle class -- and isn't anywhere close to 25k in total - not even 12,,500.

[Anonymous]

You people are nuts. Our HHI is $150 and we support a family of five on that fairly comfortably. Our net worth is maybe higher than some younger folks -- we're in our 50s, have equity in our home and no student loans for ourselves. On the other hand, we have one kid in college and another headed there in a few months, and we have to save for retirement. No way do we live lavishly, but we certainly aren't poor either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You people are nuts. Our HHI is $150 and we support a family of five on that fairly comfortably. Our net worth is maybe higher than some younger folks -- we're in our 50s, have equity in our home and no student loans for ourselves. On the other hand, we have one kid in college and another headed there in a few months, and we have to save for retirement. No way do
we live lavishly, but we certainly aren't poor either.

The main problem for those under 40 is that many didn't experience the rapid housing appreciation of the dc area before it turned into a rich area. This happened around the mid 90s and shot up until 2008.

[Anonymous]

I'm the closer to 400k poster. I am not complaining at all and feel fortunate. Take home (after maxing out 401k) is about 20k/month. We bought townhouse a few years ago for 800k- mortgage (everything in) is about 4k. Childcare about 3k a month. Loans 1200. Car 350. Insurance etc about another 500. College savings another 1k/month. Groceries, going out, clothes, classes, parking, gifts, family travel, alarm service, exterminator, out of pocket medical, a kid spills juice on your laptop and you need to replace it, it adds up. We still manage to save fine and we are in good shape. But add another 6k a month for 2 kids to attend a top private school here or increase our mortgage another 2-3k to have the million dollar home, there is no way we could do it responsibly.
I think net worth is far more relevant. We make a lot but these salaries are new for us (last 3 years). We both grew up with little so we didn't have a lot of money coming into our marriage. I see people whose parents give them 100k for a down payment, or who pick up the cost of school a few years, or pay for a wedding, or a trip, or anything - we never had any of that. Again, I know we are fortunate. But to afford some of the things I mentioned I imagine we would need to be earning our current salaries for much longer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are nuts. Our HHI is $150 and we support a family of five on that fairly comfortably. Our net worth is maybe higher than some younger folks -- we're in our 50s, have equity in our home and no student loans for ourselves. On the other hand, we have one kid in college and another headed there in a few months, and we have to save for retirement. No way do
we live lavishly, but we certainly aren't poor either.

The main problem for those under 40 is that many didn't experience the rapid housing appreciation of the dc area before it turned into a rich area. This happened around the mid 90s and shot up until 2008.

There was a runup in the late 1980's too and then it went flat for nearly a decade. Some of us bought at the peak then and had to wait until the next run up to get any real equity. There will be another run up and you will get the bonus of that and get to hear complaints of the next generation. Just like the previous generation fomr me and the previous generation from them. Housing goes in spurts and stops. DC has been a realtively expensive place to live for more than 1 or 2 decades.

Yes, we bought our house before the last run up. But our income was much smaller too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the closer to 400k poster. I am not complaining at all and feel fortunate. Take home (after maxing out 401k) is about 20k/month. We bought townhouse a few years ago for 800k- mortgage (everything in) is about 4k. Childcare about 3k a month. Loans 1200. Car 350. Insurance etc about another 500. College savings another 1k/month. Groceries, going out, clothes, classes, parking, gifts, family travel, alarm service, exterminator, out of pocket medical, a kid spills juice on your laptop and you need to replace it, it adds up. We still manage to save fine and we are in good shape. But add another 6k a month for 2 kids to attend a top private school here or increase our mortgage another 2-3k to have the million dollar home, there is no way we could do it responsibly.
I think net worth is far more relevant. We make a lot but these salaries are new for us (last 3 years). We both grew up with little so we didn't have a lot of money coming into our marriage. I see people whose parents give them 100k for a down payment, or who pick up the cost of school a few years, or pay for a wedding, or a trip, or anything - we never had any of that. Again, I know we are fortunate. But to afford some of the things I mentioned I imagine we would need to be earning our current salaries for much longer.

You don't have to send your child to private school. That will open up quite a bit for you to buy a SFH and save more.

[Anonymous]

Maybe, but I think PP is generally spot on. I make more than my in laws do but they live as though they're rich and I definitely don't, yet. I paid for college and grad school, bought an expensive house, and have daycare expenses. There really is very little left over, despite having a high annual income. I am sure in a decade or two or three I will feel better about my wealth, but right now it doesn't seem like a ton.

[Anonymous]

At risk of stating the obvious, *nobody* has significant assets only a few years into the workforce (without inheritance or other non-earned money). Making $300k, $400k, or more will allow you to build up wealth incredibly quickly as long as you don't succumb to living the $300k, etc, lifestyle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious how this is for others too. We are closer to 400k but we can't seem to wrap our heads around the fact that this is what doing well in this economy in DC looks like. Our money goes to mortgage, one car payment, student loans, max out 401k, childcare so we can remain in our busy jobs, preschool, life insurance and other insurances (homeowner, car, etc). We don't worry about money day to day in terms of buying food out at lunchtime, family meals out a few times a month, babysitters here and there, but I can't remember the last time we had money to pay for a nice vacation or buy a new piece of furniture. Our house is a close-in townhouse so we can get to our jobs with modest commutes that is 3 bedrooms and we can't figure out how we will afford to move to anything bigger in a good school district. Private school is impossible to pay for long term, at least with current childcare costs.

On a similar HHI, but no any debt except mortgage and kids going to public school.
We live in 1.5 mil house with monthly mortgage + property tax of $5000. We go on vacations to Europeand Asia every year, drive nice cars and can still save a lot of cash (>50k). I wonder where your money goes.