How is redshirting handled my MCES for GT programs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am confused. The cutoff for K in MCPS is Sept 1. So the kid who turned 6 in early September was not redshirted. He is just one of the older ones. Or am I missing something?

People skip a year to make their child smarter and bigger for athletics and academics. MCPS does nothing to curb it. My daughter has kids in various ages but she had a 6th grader that turned 13 in March of this year. Insane.

I think the cut off should be Sept 1st and you can test your child in up until Oct 1st BUT also have to test your kid out of K if they are 5 by Aug 1st. Meaning you have to have a meeting to show proof of why your child can not start K. This whole redshirting is getting ridiculous.

That said, I remember someone mentioning you can not play sports after 18yrs old so that could change senior year people who hold back to much.

The cut off IS september 1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know that the Cogat test given to 3rd graders to select for their entry into the Highly Gifted Centers in 4th grade is calculated according to the date of birth (so that their answers can be compared to a representative cohort of their own age group in order to come up with a percentile, as in every IQ test). So in my opinion this slightly disadvantages children who have been redshirted because their score will be computed by comparison to children of their own age group in a higher grade, not the children in their current grade. While these IQ tests are not knowledge-based, being in a higher grade at the time of the test and having been challenged intellectually in that way probably does prepare the student better.

I don't think that is true.

We were told the score used the child's date of birth during a Highly Gifted Center meeting for parents.
Also, this is how every IQ test is calculated (WISC-IV included) so it makes sense that the Cogat would be scored in the same way.

You are right. Our child's test had the exact age (years/months) printed on the results page. They are, like all IQ tests, calculated based on age.

On my child's letter I saw his scores and the median scores for accpeted students. I didn't see his birthdate or any evidence that the students weren't scored the same.

We're talking about 2 different reports. I think you are talking about the paper that tells you the results of the HGC entrance exam (it tells you your child's score and the median of accepted students). The actual results of the test itself will have the age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know that the Cogat test given to 3rd graders to select for their entry into the Highly Gifted Centers in 4th grade is calculated according to the date of birth (so that their answers can be compared to a representative cohort of their own age group in order to come up with a percentile, as in every IQ test). So in my opinion this slightly disadvantages children who have been redshirted because their score will be computed by comparison to children of their own age group in a higher grade, not the children in their current grade. While these IQ tests are not knowledge-based, being in a higher grade at the time of the test and having been challenged intellectually in that way probably does prepare the student better.

I don't think that is true.

We were told the score used the child's date of birth during a Highly Gifted Center meeting for parents.
Also, this is how every IQ test is calculated (WISC-IV included) so it makes sense that the Cogat would be scored in the same way.

You are right. Our child's test had the exact age (years/months) printed on the results page. They are, like all IQ tests, calculated based on age.

On my child's letter I saw his scores and the median scores for accpeted students. I didn't see his birthdate or any evidence that the students weren't scored the same.

We're talking about 2 different reports. I think you are talking about the paper that tells you the results of the HGC entrance exam (it tells you your child's score and the median of accepted students). The actual results of the test itself will have the age.

How did you see the actual test report?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know that the Cogat test given to 3rd graders to select for their entry into the Highly Gifted Centers in 4th grade is calculated according to the date of birth (so that their answers can be compared to a representative cohort of their own age group in order to come up with a percentile, as in every IQ test). So in my opinion this slightly disadvantages children who have been redshirted because their score will be computed by comparison to children of their own age group in a higher grade, not the children in their current grade. While these IQ tests are not knowledge-based, being in a higher grade at the time of the test and having been challenged intellectually in that way probably does prepare the student better.

I don't think that is true.

We were told the score used the child's date of birth during a Highly Gifted Center meeting for parents.
Also, this is how every IQ test is calculated (WISC-IV included) so it makes sense that the Cogat would be scored in the same way.

You are right. Our child's test had the exact age (years/months) printed on the results page. They are, like all IQ tests, calculated based on age.

On my child's letter I saw his scores and the median scores for accepted students. I didn't see his birthdate or any evidence that the students weren't scored the same.

We're talking about 2 different reports. I think you are talking about the paper that tells you the results of the HGC entrance exam (it tells you your child's score and the median of accepted students). The actual results of the test itself will have the age.

OP here, this is soo incredibly helpful. THANK YOU for posting your responses.

i also wanted to point to an article that we found that supports the statement "being in a higher grade at the time of the test and having been challenged intellectually in that way probably does prepare the student better."
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/25/opinion/sunday/dont-delay-your-kindergartners-start.html?_r=0
We were lucky to find this article in the summer. This article greatly influenced our decision of putting our DS into KG.

thanks again for the info

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am confused. The cutoff for K in MCPS is Sept 1. So the kid who turned 6 in early September was not redshirted. He is just one of the older ones. Or am I missing something?

Exactly. I was thinking the same thing.

Ditto here. And the child who turned 5 in Sept in KG had to have taken the early entrance exam or this child would not be in a MCPS KG program.

OP here,
1) u r totally right the neighbors kid is not redshirted. this question was not about him.
2) collectively, u r missing what i was trying to ask. what i was asking was how does MC deal with age diff.
3) our son is in private KG. Our school happily accepted him into KG bc he was mature, very inquisitive, and was academically strong [could add and subtract (within 100), was a good reader (level F) and is obsessed with everything space/astronomy related]
4) dcurbanmoms blog has a set of people that just r looking for a fight regardless of a topic. it sure feels like you guys are part of that group. it reminds me of sharks swinging around looking for pray/blood.

[Anonymous]

I am curious as well. Does a kid with an October birthday need to score better on the test than one with a July birthday?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am curious as well. Does a kid with an October birthday need to score better on the test than one with a July birthday?

Yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious as well. Does a kid with an October birthday need to score better on the test than one with a July birthday?

Yes.

Where does MCPS state this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious as well. Does a kid with an October birthday need to score better on the test than one with a July birthday?

Yes.

Where does MCPS state this?

I posted about the Cogat being scored according to age.
MCPS does not tell you this anywhere, but it is the standard method behind all IQ-like examinations. My son took the WISC-IV some years ago and in researching how it was scored, this is what I found (and the psychologist administering the test confirmed it). When experts develop an IQ test, they create baseline scores using thousands of children of different age categories. When your child takes the exam, his score is compared to the baseline of his age cohort and this is how his percentiles are calculated (whether he did worse, the same or better than his same-aged peers in the cohort). Therefore, an older child should have more correct answers than a younger child to obtain the same percentile. When we're talking a few months difference, I presume the difference must be quite small though. Hence my thought that the older student could have been better off in his original class to have the same intellectual challenge as his peers.

IQ tests are probably the only area in which redshirted students are at a disadvantage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am confused. The cutoff for K in MCPS is Sept 1. So the kid who turned 6 in early September was not redshirted. He is just one of the older ones. Or am I missing something?

Exactly. I was thinking the same thing.

Ditto here. And the child who turned 5 in Sept in KG had to have taken the early entrance exam or this child would not be in a MCPS KG program.

OP here,
1) u r totally right the neighbors kid is not redshirted. this question was not about him.
2) collectively, u r missing what i was trying to ask. what i was asking was how does MC deal with age diff.
3) our son is in private KG. Our school happily accepted him into KG bc he was mature, very inquisitive, and was academically strong [could add and subtract (within 100), was a good reader (level F) and is obsessed with everything space/astronomy related]
4) dcurbanmoms blog has a set of people that just r looking for a fight regardless of a topic. it sure feels like you guys are part of that group. it reminds me of sharks swinging around looking for pray/blood.

Not at all looking for a fight. I found your original post wording confusing. That is why I posted about your 5 yr old being accepted early and not truly K age for MOCO schools. A child with a fall birthday after September 1st is automatically going to be turning 6 in the fall of K. That is the correct age, not a child held back. Your original post makes it sound like you thought the child was held back and your child went on time. None of this matters, of course. But you get answers according to how you word your original question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am confused. The cutoff for K in MCPS is Sept 1. So the kid who turned 6 in early September was not redshirted. He is just one of the older ones. Or am I missing something?

Exactly. I was thinking the same thing.

Ditto here. And the child who turned 5 in Sept in KG had to have taken the early entrance exam or this child would not be in a MCPS KG program.

OP here,
1) u r totally right the neighbors kid is not redshirted. this question was not about him.
2) collectively, u r missing what i was trying to ask. what i was asking was how does MC deal with age diff.
3) our son is in private KG. Our school happily accepted him into KG bc he was mature, very inquisitive, and was academically strong [could add and subtract (within 100), was a good reader (level F) and is obsessed with everything space/astronomy related]
4) dcurbanmoms blog has a set of people that just r looking for a fight regardless of a topic. it sure feels like you guys are part of that group. it reminds me of sharks swinging around looking for pray/blood.

Not at all looking for a fight. I found your original post wording confusing. That is why I posted about your 5 yr old being accepted early and not truly K age for MOCO schools. A child with a fall birthday after September 1st is automatically going to be turning 6 in the fall of K. That is the correct age, not a child held back. Your original post makes it sound like you thought the child was held back and your child went on time. None of this matters, of course. But you get answers according to how you word your original question.

No I'm not looking for a fight either - but your original post made it sound like a redshirted child was getting an advantage. When it actuality - your son tested in early - which is a quite different case.