Exactly how good are MoCo schools?

[Anonymous]

IMHO, schools appear good or bad depending on the population sending the kids. If the neighborhood is wealthy and highly educated, you will see high test scores and 'good' schools. If the neighborhood is poor, the scores will drop. In both cases, the teachers are probably fine, but the family makes or breaks the scores. If your family values education, your kids will likely end up fine no matter where you live.

[Anonymous]

I'm disappointed with class sizes in MCPS also (also 26 in K..Bethesda...possibly same school?), but I value a more progressive system so I would prefer a school in Bethesda over Texas. That being said, is the cost of living such that you could send to a private school in Texas and still break even?

[Anonymous]

MCPS is really going downhill. They used to accommodate the students who were more capable but now its just plain awful. My first grader calls the work "baby work".

[Anonymous]

MCPS is not one of the best in the nation. This is a PR ploy. They only compare themselves to similar sized school systems which means they are comparing themselves to larger urban school systems. The comparative pool is very small too. and the large urban school systems are dealing with significant poverty, crime and other issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCPS is not one of the best in the nation. This is a PR ploy. They only compare themselves to similar sized school systems which means they are comparing themselves to larger urban school systems. The comparative pool is very small too. and the large urban school systems are dealing with significant poverty, crime and other issues.

+1

The stats are based on comparisons of school systems with 65K+ students, which leaves out many, many school systems in the country - many of which are far better than MCPS.

[Anonymous]

I'm disappointed with class sizes in MCPS also (also 26 in K..Bethesda...possibly same school?), but I value a more progressive system so I would prefer a school in Bethesda over Texas. That being said, is the cost of living such that you could send to a private school in Texas and still break even?

I don't know what you mean by a "more progressive school system" but high performing urban and suburban (of big cities) are certainly "progressive"--at least as progressive as anywhere in the DC area. When I lived in Austin, the local elementary school started an optional Mandarin program in kindergarden, the curriculum taught evolution and climate change, and it offered a lot of really great programs especially for the magnet students. Being in Texas doesn't immediately mean backwater nonsense school. Now if you were to go to bumfuck rural Texas (just as if you were to go to bumfuck rural Maryland) the picture would be totally different. Also, if you were in inner city Houston (just as if you were in inner city DC or Baltimore) you would have all kinds of serious issues. I have found in general, there are fewer really great college prep private schools in Texas outside of Houston than there are on the East coast, and a lot of the private schools are religiously affiliated. The Episcopal schools are strong, but honestly, I would much rather send my kid to a high performing public school in Texas than some Evangelical Christian school that refuses to teach evolution and doesn't allow dancing at prom.

Also the cost of living is way lower, but not as much lower as you would imagine. Housing is cheaper for sure, but you aren't talking about a 100K McMansion unless you are living somewhere where the schools are crappy or is really far away from the city. Property taxes are higher to make up for the lack of a state income tax, so there's that too. Also salaries tend to be a little lower because the cost of living is lower. Like anywhere, good schools=more expensive to live there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm disappointed with class sizes in MCPS also (also 26 in K..Bethesda...possibly same school?), but I value a more progressive system so I would prefer a school in Bethesda over Texas. That being said, is the cost of living such that you could send to a private school in Texas and still break even?

I don't know what you mean by a "more progressive school system" but high performing urban and suburban (of big cities) are certainly "progressive"--at least as progressive as anywhere in the DC area. When I lived in Austin, the local elementary school started an optional Mandarin program in kindergarden, the curriculum taught evolution and climate change, and it offered a lot of really great programs especially for the magnet students. Being in Texas doesn't immediately mean backwater nonsense school. Now if you were to go to bumfuck rural Texas (just as if you were to go to bumfuck rural Maryland) the picture would be totally different. Also, if you were in inner city Houston (just as if you were in inner city DC or Baltimore) you would have all kinds of serious issues. I have found in general, there are fewer really great college prep private schools in Texas outside of Houston than there are on the East coast, and a lot of the private schools are religiously affiliated. The Episcopal schools are strong, but honestly, I would much rather send my kid to a high performing public school in Texas than some Evangelical Christian school that refuses to teach evolution and doesn't allow dancing at prom.

Also the cost of living is way lower, but not as much lower as you would imagine. Housing is cheaper for sure, but you aren't talking about a 100K McMansion unless you are living somewhere where the schools are crappy or is really far away from the city. Property taxes are higher to make up for the lack of a state income tax, so there's that too. Also salaries tend to be a little lower because the cost of living is lower. Like anywhere, good schools=more expensive to live there.

OP Here -- Thanks for the specifics about the school in Austin. We spent a few years there and would love to move back, but we're more likely to find jobs in Dallas or Houston. My general sense about privates was the same - there are fewer options. But we're probably more likely to spend on a house there to be in the "right" neighborhood and school district rather than pay private school tuition anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS is better than its critics on this board allege, at least in my experience. But I wouldn't stay in the area SOLELY for MCPS. I say that as an overly degreed person who cares deeply about education despite having grown up in a small town of 10k with about 3 AP classes to its name. I have no doubt that your kids could get a great education in Dallas, or Kalamazoo, or anywhere else, as long as you seek that out for them. They can also get a great education in MCPS, but any distinctions are not worth planning your family's entire existence around.

I agree with this, but would only point out that it is not true that kids can get a great education no matter where they live. In general a good local school system is dependent on the population placing a high value on (and therefore funding) a good education. In many parts of the country this is simply not the situation.

+1
You pay for a MoCo public education no matter where you live in the county. If you live in the Western side (like Bethesda), the houses are much more expensive (because they are in the "good school districts"). If you live in the Eastern part of the county, you pay much less for a house, but must supplement the shoddy schools if you can afford it. Or you end up in private. Don't be fooled into thinking that the public schools are equal throughout the county. Not true. SO not true. Haters gonna hate, but it's the truth.

15:30 here. That is not what I meant at all. I live in the eastern part of the county and have a HS student at Blair and a MS student at Takoma Park MS. Both of our kids are surrounded by like-minded motivated and high-performing students and our local population places a high value on education. The schools reflect this. I am quite sure that my kids are receiving as good an education as the one their cousins (at Whitman and Pyle), who likewise are surrounded by people who value education, are receiving.

[Anonymous]

OP Here -- Thanks for the specifics about the school in Austin. We spent a few years there and would love to move back, but we're more likely to find jobs in Dallas or Houston. My general sense about privates was the same - there are fewer options. But we're probably more likely to spend on a house there to be in the "right" neighborhood and school district rather than pay private school tuition anyway.

Yeah, sorry I don't have more perspective on Houston or Dallas. Having not lived there, I just simply don't know as much about the options. But what I do know is there is a huge east coast bias on this board for obvious reasons. And while in general, there are more opportunities and appreciation for education in the Northeast than there is in the South, I do believe that if you are in a major metropolitan area with a high concentration of educated people and wealth, there will be opportunities that won't put your kids at any disadvantage.

[Anonymous]

op please ignore those ignorant words.

there are very good schools in tx. a few little facts
people either do not know or do not want you know
- schools are significantly different in mcps.
- even for good schools, their principals can make it not good.
- high school is totally different from es and ms. kids will face with real challenges in hs. yes, some will fail miserably since es/ms is just too much fun and .

if u have a relatively smart kid, tx may provide much better es/ms opportunities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Personally I would not want to send my kids to schools run by the Texas board of education.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/headlines/20130917-evolution-proponents-critics-clash-at-texas-school-boards-textbook-hearing.ece

Me either. That is not an East Coast bias. The Texas Board of Education includes creationists, climate-change deniers, and people who don't think the Constitution requires the separation of church and state.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/education/creationists-on-texas-panel-for-biology-textbooks.html?_r=0
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/jun/21/how-texas-inflicts-bad-textbooks-on-us/

[Anonymous]

Do you have family back home/do you have family here?

What are your goals. Do you want to go Ivy, SLAC or do you expect your kids to go South for college?
Do you have boys? are they active? do you have an active girl/tomboy?
Do you suspect you will have kids with LD's like dylexia?

Nothing beats cousins/aunts/grandparents (if you like them). The greatest indicator of success is a warm loving connection to family.

For girls and not very active boys all the elementary schools in Montgomery County are excellent. For active boys/girls they are a nightmare.

All the middle schools in MoCo are lacking in one way or another. Socially it is an aweful time - not sure anywhere is much better.

If you kids are super smart they will do well, if they have significant special needs I would stay.

For the kids in the middle, it can be a disaster, depending where you go and what you expect. Parents try their hardest to get the middle kids into the honors programs for segregation from "troubled" kids and often it is bad fit.

Kids with mild LD's are not handled well in MoCo unless they are gifted also. (2E or LDGT)

Many schools in Bethesda will be super over the top and out of control competitive and your 2.3 student will be made to feel like a failure. If your child is self confident it will not be an issue but if there are tiny cracks in his/her self esteem it could become an issue.

Drugs are a problem everywhere but in Bethesda parent can afford the $5000 fine for furnishing alcohol to a minor. More expensive drugs are easier to obtain.

You will have to work very hard on making sure your kids do not grow up entitled in this area. My son recently put a car on his birthday list. I will keep it to show his kids after I stopped laughing I told him I would get him a metro card. This from a child who did not get a phone until he was 15 and has a job in the summer. I know a JOB in MoCo it's rare. Oh, did I mention, teens in this area don't have jobs.


Our relatives are in the midwest (not Texas) and when they visit or we visit them, my kids can't believe how fun and laid back it is. My son will say,"Wow everybody is so calm." Want to go fishing or hiking okay let's go. Here it's like at 4pm we are all gathering in location X and we will assign everybody something to bring, we will hike exactly from 4-7pm at which time we will fish, fishing will happen from 7pm-9pm and everybody needs to be back at the lodge at 9:30. Anybody is late shit will hit the fan. If this does not bother you great, but if this bothers you, wait until you meet your room parent.

Forget about football, your kids need to play lacrosse. Just kidding.

I am sure there are issues with every area, MoCo has great schools. But you need to look at your kids and ask does MoCo have great schools (and lifestyle) for us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Personally I would not want to send my kids to schools run by the Texas board of education.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/headlines/20130917-evolution-proponents-critics-clash-at-texas-school-boards-textbook-hearing.ece

Me either. That is not an East Coast bias. The Texas Board of Education includes creationists, climate-change deniers, and people who don't think the Constitution requires the separation of church and state.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/education/creationists-on-texas-panel-for-biology-textbooks.html?_r=0
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/jun/21/how-texas-inflicts-bad-textbooks-on-us/

Our founding fathers did not get their education under separation of church and states. Let me be straight.
Climate change is still a scientific hypothesis instead of a fact.

IMHO, using political talk points to make any judgement on education is simply a crime. I hope MCPS can be less political and more technical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Personally I would not want to send my kids to schools run by the Texas board of education.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/headlines/20130917-evolution-proponents-critics-clash-at-texas-school-boards-textbook-hearing.ece

Me either. That is not an East Coast bias. The Texas Board of Education includes creationists, climate-change deniers, and people who don't think the Constitution requires the separation of church and state.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/education/creationists-on-texas-panel-for-biology-textbooks.html?_r=0
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/jun/21/how-texas-inflicts-bad-textbooks-on-us/

Our founding fathers did not get their education under separation of church and states. Let me be straight.
Climate change is still a scientific hypothesis instead of a fact.

IMHO, using political talk points to make any judgement on education is simply a crime. I hope MCPS can be less political and more technical.

Could you cite your source for this assertion please?

Every reputable source I have read says that climate change is a fact. No reputable study contradicts this.

When did it become acceptable to question science because its conclusions are inconvenient or somehow distasteful to us?

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2009/01/28/0812721106.full.pdf+html

http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2009/20090126_climate.html

[Anonymous]

Thank you 10/23/2013 07:34.

To OP,

A couple of facts.

In addition, MCPS is not great for kids from a good daycare in this area where many kids learn and master kills like counting, sorting, and reading picture books. Basically, these kids will repeat the same thing in Kindergarten and even in 1st grade. They can feel very boring in the class and will develop a bad habbit of not listening to teachers.

Under curriculum 2.0, your kids will be learning with other kids in lock steps at MCPS. In Dallas/Houston, you can find school districts that students are allowed to go to a grade fit him/her. One example, a friend of my wife has a 3rd grader learning 5th grade math.