Law school applicants down 17 - 50%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As someone who is a member of the "millennial" generation, this is what I have to say:

Most of the millenial ivy league grads I know who want a lucrative career jump into either investment banking, management consulting, or software engineering. All of these jobs hire graduates from elite schools with a bachelors degree.

The people I know who go to law school go because they really want to be a lawyer. Among my peers you either 1) get into a top 10 program (forget top 20, mostly just Harvard and Yale), or if that's not in the cards 2) Decide on a place you like well enough to live there forever where your spouse has employment that has some clout regionally.

What is it?

[Anonymous]

The fraternity brothers I smoked a TON of dope with....did not exude the lawyerly competancy.

[Anonymous]

Software engineering, you know, designing software for tech companies like google, apple, and facebook. Most of my friends who are in their 20s and making well over 6 figures are in the tech sector (with a bachelors, sometimes masters degree). Usually they study computer science or math with a theoretical computer science bent.

Another lucrative area for math majors is being an actuary because it's a boring technical job that requires a certain degree of mathematical proficiency. And it pays really really well.

But consulting and finance, too. Some are technical "quant" people, others had liberal arts majors. Most are bright and driven but interested in making money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As someone who is a member of the "millennial" generation, this is what I have to say:

Most of the millenial ivy league grads I know who want a lucrative career jump into either investment banking, management consulting, or software engineering. All of these jobs hire graduates from elite schools with a bachelors degree.

The people I know who go to law school go because they really want to be a lawyer. Among my peers you either 1) get into a top 10 program (forget top 20, mostly just Harvard and Yale), or if that's not in the cards 2) Decide on a place you like well enough to live there forever where your spouse has employment that has some clout regionally.

As someone in IT, what a waste to spend all that money at an Ivy League for Software Engineering. Most of it is learned on the job and to be good at it you MUST have a natural ability. Someone who studies SW engineering at Stanford and is a "student" of the profession will never be as good as the guy with natural ability who only got a GED. One of the brightest guys I know only graduated HS and rolled right into the computer world at 18 and now at 24 can completely write his ticket. He probably will never have the need to prepare a resume or go on a competitive interview.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Software engineering, you know, designing software for tech companies like google, apple, and facebook. Most of my friends who are in their 20s and making well over 6 figures are in the tech sector (with a bachelors, sometimes masters degree). Usually they study computer science or math with a theoretical computer science bent.

Another lucrative area for math majors is being an actuary because it's a boring technical job that requires a certain degree of mathematical proficiency. And it pays really really well.

But consulting and finance, too. Some are technical "quant" people, others had liberal arts majors. Most are bright and driven but interested in making money.

Screw all the study and work stuff. I'm in IT and I will only work at small innovative start-ups. If you are truly smart and want to make the big bucks IPOs and acquisitions are where it is at. You just have to negotiate well at the point of hire. Lower salary in turn for a piece of the pie if shit gets white hot is the name of the game. I go lucky with one IPO, hope to do it again and then split all together.

[Anonymous]

As someone in IT, what a waste to spend all that money at an Ivy League for Software Engineering. Most of it is learned on the job and to be good at it you MUST have a natural ability.

Most of the people who went to elite schools (Caltech, MIT, ivies, Stanford, selective liberal arts colleges, etc.) who went into software engineering didn't see their education as a waste. They were generally people who were into math/CS but who also appreciated education for education's sake. They obviously enjoyed that tech jobs paid well and provided them with an intellectually stimulating job, but had other intellectual interests. Of course there are others who do really well without a degree. My brother has a friend like that...he's a coding whiz and decided to forego college all together and do freelance work at first and later got hired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the problem with trying to make everyone equal. LS became accessible to those who were not wealthy or incredibly bright. So they glutted the market because everyone could become a lawyer. The market recalibrated and only those graduating at the top of their class and/or from top schools were able to get the prized jobs. Just like it used to be. Now the poors have to find something else because the legal industry has had enough.

This is the main flaw of your reasoning. Just who is trying to "make everyone equal," the lawyers? HAH!

Most of the people I know who went to law school were a.) had wealthy parents who would pay, b.) had no career direction in life and didn't want to go to business school, and c.) don't use their law degrees.

[Anonymous]

It's not anything having to do with exclusivity. The long, long term trend s that the number of males enrolled is flat. The number of females increased substantially. Since women are just as smart and come from the same families, that pretty much shoots down this hypothesis.



As for the most recent years, enrollment went up when the recession hit. It's normally a great time to take a few years and get an advanced degree. But the problem is that the economy did not pick up. And more emportantly the number of employed lawyers DECLINED.

This meant that a glut of law school grads ran smack into a glut of laid off but experienced associates. Once people realize this, enrollment drops.

[Anonymous]

so much emphasis on STEM now, think the bright people go there. And the quicke big money is made in technology and computer apps. Also business school still popular.

[Anonymous]

the happiest people i know that went to law school never worked in law after graduation:

one works for a movie studio, another for an nba team, and one for a tech start-up....none in 'legal' functions either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the problem with trying to make everyone equal. LS became accessible to those who were not wealthy or incredibly bright. So they glutted the market because everyone could become a lawyer. The market recalibrated and only those graduating at the top of their class and/or from top schools were able to get the prized jobs. Just like it used to be. Now the poors have to find something else because the legal industry has had enough.

Isn't this the case for most professions now in this global marketplace? There's a thousand people, including foreigners for every job. So now, you've got to be connected and have the qualifications to get the top jobs.

Yup. Perhaps more people will start pursuing medical and STEM degrees and eventually those markets will become flooded with oversupply. It's just that those professions have a much higher bar up front to get in compared to law school.

medicine will never have an oversupply as long as there are limited residency spots.

the acgme and ama protect doctors unlike the ABA does with lawyers.

stem has a oversupply. don't believe what the immigration shills tell you (i want comp immigration but not because of 'we need more h1bs')

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good. Too many attorneys and too much student debt being acquired.

Signed, an attorney 10 years out and still paying off my loans

+1

Law school costs WAY too much and there is a marked oversupply of lawyers in the market.

I'm in the minority I think, in that I really love practicing law now but government law doesn't pay off that debt very quickly. Moreover, most lawyers I graduated with seem desperately unhappy - especially the ones who got the coveted high-paying biglaw jobs. Of course, they don't have the debt I do ten years later . . . . For those without even a shot at those jobs, lawschool is just a shitty investment. seriously. I have classmates who did well at my top 5 law school and spent a year or more unemployed and/or ended up employed in something non-legal. I know a couple who ended up in bankruptcy. Another friend is a law professor at a good regional law school and reports that her students for the last few years have had trouble getting ANY job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the problem with trying to make everyone equal. LS became accessible to those who were not wealthy or incredibly bright. So they glutted the market because everyone could become a lawyer. The market recalibrated and only those graduating at the top of their class and/or from top schools were able to get the prized jobs. Just like it used to be. Now the poors have to find something else because the legal industry has had enough.

Isn't this the case for most professions now in this global marketplace? There's a thousand people, including foreigners for every job. So now, you've got to be connected and have the qualifications to get the top jobs.

Yup. Perhaps more people will start pursuing medical and STEM degrees and eventually those markets will become flooded with oversupply. It's just that those professions have a much higher bar up front to get in compared to law school.

medicine will never have an oversupply as long as there are limited residency spots.

the acgme and ama protect doctors unlike the ABA does with lawyers.

stem has a oversupply. don't believe what the immigration shills tell you (i want comp immigration but not because of 'we need more h1bs')

Too bad they protect doctors at the expense of patients. That's why I avoid American doctors unless my head is falling off.

[Anonymous]

Simple. It has turned out to be a bad investment for most people, rather than the "easy ticket" they stupidly believe.

When you graduate from college with mediocre grades, get mediocre lsats, enroll in a 4th tier law school, get more mediocre grades....

Your earnings are likely to be fairly low, even if you manage to get a job in your field.

[Anonymous]

This meant that a glut of law school grads ran smack into a glut of laid off but experienced associates. Once people realize this, enrollment drops.

Law firms got leaner and they are going to stay that way. People are finally wising up to this reality and no longer using law as the "default" career.