Attorney--Non Supervisory 15 Positions
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Anonymous
+1 |
Anonymous
Yep. |
Anonymous
| My office had a few of these when I joined 10 years ago but each one had some elaborate story of some sort and they were not common nor was there any promise of anyone else getting them. After losing many attorneys to other agenices with non-supervisory 15 positions, things changed. Now current employees who meet certain criteria (length of service, time with agency, certain performance ratings) are eligible to apply for the promotion. |
Anonymous
| Most of our legal divisions have a couple of these positions, for people with above-average experience. All are competitive positions, meaning that we don't promote from 14 to 15: you have to apply separately for the 15. But many or most of the openings are p |
Anonymous
| ^ sorry, are posted internally only. |
Anonymous
This is 7/26 23:32 back ... This is changing government-wide and will continue to get tighter. The dynamic you describe is exactly what caused "grade creep" at my former agency and others, and OPM and agencies/departments are in the process of putting an end to it, in large part pressured by budget bad news. None of the criteria you mention are sufficient to justify a non-supervisory GS15 under the OPM classification standards (complexity of work and level/nature of contacts are the criteria). No one paid much attention to the real criteria for the past 15-20 yrs. but believe me, they are now, their budgetary lives will depend on it. So many current 15s will become "incumbent only" either explicitly or implicitly and when the incumbents leave, many of those slots will not be filled as 15s. You can do that legitimately by parcelling out the former incumbent 15's GS15-level work among 2-3 (or more) 14s (for example). If that doesn't bump one or more of those 14s up to meet the GS15 classification standard the added duties won't justify a promotion for them. It's going to get tighter. It will also, regrettably, have an effect on morale and recruitment but that's the new financial reality. |
Anonymous
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There are many at my agency, including mine.
If you work at any agency that has a "legal mission" and employs primarily lawyers, there will be many. Examples: FLRA, FMCS, NLRB, DOJ. |
Anonymous
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As an outsider ... Why is non supervisory so coveted? Wouldn't you want a team (read: resources you can ask to help with things)??
Xoxo, Confused non lawyer non gov dude |
Anonymous
Many lawyer positions in government simply don't involve supervisory duties. So it's a question of career opportunities, not a question of who wants to lead and who doesn't want to lead. People want a 15 because it's the top of the pay scale. As for wanting a team to ask for help with things, most supervisors don't do the work that the team does. You don't litigate if you are a career supervisor. |
Anonymous
Many, many attorneys just want to practice law, and not deal with people management. In government, the supervisor's job is to hire, fire, deal with employee reviews and discipline, attend countless meetings, approve leave and raises, and explain to various senior people why the memo didn't get done or the law doesn't support what they want to do. Maybe you get to set some policy or mentor people, but mostly it's office management. So it's not like the supervisor is assigned a legal task and has a team to help do it; it's more than the office has a mission and the supervisor makes sure the staff lawyers are working on it. |
Anonymous
This exactly. I am often asked to cover for my supervisor (an SES) when she is on leave, and I hate it. I just want to do my own work efficiently and well; I don't want to have to review my colleagues' briefs, go to pointless meetings where managers pontificate about unimportant issues, or deal with management egos and bullshit. Our deputy position was open for a while before they decided not to fill it, and I did not apply. Nor did anyone else in the office. Everyone wants to be a 15 (we are all 14s), but no one wants to supervise or manage. If they had specialist 15 positions, we'd all be competing for them, but at my agency there are very few non-managers 15s among the lawyers. Plenty among the non-lawyers though, oddly. |
Anonymous
| My supervisor (a 15) spends 90% of his time doing BS administrative work- writing countless reports, sitting on pointless conference calls, conducting evaluations, doing the basic dog and pony show, etc. He spends maybe 10% of his time doing actual legal work that's related to our mission. You couldn't pay me enough to do his job. We have a running joke in our division that when he retires, we're going to have to draw straws to determine who has to take his position. There is not much of a difference in pay, but the extra time and BS is unbelievable. |
Anonymous
| Ironically, 15 (supervisors) can make less than 14 bargaining unit employees in the government because of comp time that unit employees are eligible for. |
Anonymous
| ^ That varies by agency, obviously. In my agency none of the attorneys are bargaining unit. Comp time is nearly unheard of. |
Anonymous
We have tons at my agency, DOJ (FBI). We have a hiring freeze right now and hiring is very competitive when we are hiring. Some one previously criticized me for stating that on a previous thread about getting a government attorney position, but it is the truth. We are DOJ attorneys but hired by the agency. Great job, I am thankful everyday for the fact that I have an interesting job doing good things that I can be passionate about. That being said, there is an inordinate amount of admin BS and it is true that supervisory positions have to deal with 10X the amount of administrative issues. We do not get comp time, unless it is for travel outside of normal work hours and no overtime.... but it is still the best job and I work with mostly  awesome committed people.
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