DCPS Elementary Schools Question

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Well 83%

It's interesting to me that schools with very high OOB populations weren't considered for closing. If a school is designed to serve a neighborhood and less than 20% of the neighborhood is utilizing it, maybe they should close it.

. Sure the test scores were by DCPS standards good and by more objective standards closer to medicore.

I have no idea where this 20% number is coming from (that less than 20% of the neighborhood is utilizing it); is there some source for that? I am not aware of any statistics that can tell you what % of an in-bounds population actually go to the neighborhood school. 17% in bounds at the school does not mean that only 17% of in bounds families are choosing to go there. In fact the Hearst boundaries are quite small and I think it's conceivable that even if every elementary school-aged kid in the neighborhood went there it would only be at about capacity.

And I will just point out the obvious, which is that if more neighborhood families chose it it would become more of a neighborhood school.

Yo. Check out the DCPS school profiles, which include in-boundary numbers:

http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/Hearst+Elementary+School

It's not exactly a state secret.

"Yo."

There is a difference between the percentage of the school that is in-bound and the percentage of families in the neighborhood that go to the school.

17% of the school is made up of in-bound families. We have no idea what percentage of school-aged families within the boundary go to Hearst.

[Anonymous]

I guess you'd need very local census data for that.

Anyway if the Hearst boundaries are too small I wonder if DCPS shift some of the boundaries from Janey and Murch to make Hearst's boundaries bigger. Or are they going to avoid touching anything WOTP with a ten foot pole for fear of lawsuits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP there's also the OOB factor. We considered a hearst-zoned school, but while we have no issue with the diversity or the student population there, Hearst is 88% OOB, which really makes it not a neighborhood school.

To me being able to walk to friends' houses, play in the alley with school buddies etc. is really important. It helps build the sense of community as well.

Hearst's figures suggest that won't happen.

Yes, I have heard this argument. If your children end up going to a private school this is also the case so this is a silly argument. In the end, you don't like the OOB kids because they are different. The subtext of the "neighborhood argument" is one of racism/classism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's lay it out there, super-raw, and have other people qualify it around the edges:

Hearst has way more black students from east-of-the-Park and way fewer children of families with $1M homes.

Slice, dice and qualify it, and I'm sure your friend wouldn't put it that way openly in 2013 in DC, but them's the breaks.

OP here. Thank you. This is actually what I suspected. I am reconsidering my opinion of this person. I don't know much about Hearst but this was my initial thought, just wanted to check with people who might know. People are endlessly disappointing me.

It's probably a little more nuanced than that - SES has a lot to do with it.

OP, if you find this distasteful, you must also find the many people who live east of the park and send their kids to charter schools distasteful as well. You're going to be pretty lonely if that's your criteria for friendship.

OP here. I would rather lonely than surrounded by racists or people who judge people solely on the basis of income (be it high or low!!).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One big distinction that I would make between Janney and Hearst is the infrastructure. Once Hearst gains a cafteria, gym etc. through the renovation, I'm sure more people will be interested.

In DC, it's more about fundamental needs such as the outcomes and culture (do I have to worry about my kid getting bullied or robbed) than it is about infrastructure. Let's not be under illusions of putting lipstick on a pig and calling it a day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's lay it out there, super-raw, and have other people qualify it around the edges:

Hearst has way more black students from east-of-the-Park and way fewer children of families with $1M homes.

Slice, dice and qualify it, and I'm sure your friend wouldn't put it that way openly in 2013 in DC, but them's the breaks.

OP here. Thank you. This is actually what I suspected. I am reconsidering my opinion of this person. I don't know much about Hearst but this was my initial thought, just wanted to check with people who might know. People are endlessly disappointing me.

It's probably a little more nuanced than that - SES has a lot to do with it.

OP, if you find this distasteful, you must also find the many people who live east of the park and send their kids to charter schools distasteful as well. You're going to be pretty lonely if that's your criteria for friendship.

OP here. I would rather lonely than surrounded by racists or people who judge people solely on the basis of income (be it high or low!!).

I don't give a damn about income. What I care about is whether or not it's a safe and appropriate environment for learning. Frankly there is school after school in DC with serious behavior and disruption problems, bullying problems, and outright crime problems. Yes, some rich kids bully and disrupt, and so on. The problem is that there's far too much coddling and far too little addressing the problems. Compared to most communities around the country, kids in DC schools behave horrendously - and there's far too many parents who are in denial and who fail to realize that their precious little Johnny behaves very differently in school than how he behaves at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One big distinction that I would make between Janney and Hearst is the infrastructure. Once Hearst gains a cafteria, gym etc. through the renovation, I'm sure more people will be interested.

In DC, it's more about fundamental needs such as the outcomes and culture (do I have to worry about my kid getting bullied or robbed) than it is about infrastructure. Let's not be under illusions of putting lipstick on a pig and calling it a day.

While I don't disagree that educational outcomes and culture play a part, there is something to be said for turning a school around with a renovation. Deal's renovation helped greatly in this regard. The physical plant was a mess and it even lacked a library. People are attracted to shiny new things and entering at Pre-k is pretty low stakes. Once there, people might just decide they like it. Given the small catchment, the in-bounds numbers might never reach those of Janney but they will increase, of that I have no doubt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One big distinction that I would make between Janney and Hearst is the infrastructure. Once Hearst gains a cafteria, gym etc. through the renovation, I'm sure more people will be interested.

In DC, it's more about fundamental needs such as the outcomes and culture (do I have to worry about my kid getting bullied or robbed) than it is about infrastructure. Let's not be under illusions of putting lipstick on a pig and calling it a day.

Let me calm any fears here. You do not have to worry about your kids being "robbed" at Hearst. Geesh. Bullying can happen at any school and I hear more about it at the richer, whiter schools than I do at Hearst.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP there's also the OOB factor. We considered a hearst-zoned school, but while we have no issue with the diversity or the student population there, Hearst is 88% OOB, which really makes it not a neighborhood school.

To me being able to walk to friends' houses, play in the alley with school buddies etc. is really important. It helps build the sense of community as well.

Hearst's figures suggest that won't happen.

Yes, I have heard this argument. If your children end up going to a private school this is also the case so this is a silly argument. In the end, you don't like the OOB kids because they are different. The subtext of the "neighborhood argument" is one of racism/classism.

I am in inbound Hearst family and I don't think this is quite fair. There's nothing wrong with wanting more friends in the neighborhood and it has nothing to do with race or class. Just proximity and convenience. It didn't stop me from going to the school, but that doesn't mean it's racist of me to try to encourage more local families to go to Hearst.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP there's also the OOB factor. We considered a hearst-zoned school, but while we have no issue with the diversity or the student population there, Hearst is 88% OOB, which really makes it not a neighborhood school.

To me being able to walk to friends' houses, play in the alley with school buddies etc. is really important. It helps build the sense of community as well.

Hearst's figures suggest that won't happen.

Yes, I have heard this argument. If your children end up going to a private school this is also the case so this is a silly argument. In the end, you don't like the OOB kids because they are different. The subtext of the "neighborhood argument" is one of racism/classism.

I am in inbound Hearst family and I don't think this is quite fair. There's nothing wrong with wanting more friends in the neighborhood and it has nothing to do with race or class. Just proximity and convenience. It didn't stop me from going to the school, but that doesn't mean it's racist of me to try to encourage more local families to go to Hearst.

There is nothing wrong with wanting more neighborhood friends, completely agree. My issue is with the people inbounds for Hearst who dismiss it based on the "neighborhood argument" then turn around and send their children to private school. It's like: What happen to the neighborhood argument? A private school isn't based on neighborhood boundaries. This is where the neighborhood argument is really just a subtext for racism/classism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's lay it out there, super-raw, and have other people qualify it around the edges:

Hearst has way more black students from east-of-the-Park and way fewer children of families with $1M homes.

Slice, dice and qualify it, and I'm sure your friend wouldn't put it that way openly in 2013 in DC, but them's the breaks.

OP here. Thank you. This is actually what I suspected. I am reconsidering my opinion of this person. I don't know much about Hearst but this was my initial thought, just wanted to check with people who might know. People are endlessly disappointing me.

It's probably a little more nuanced than that - SES has a lot to do with it.

OP, if you find this distasteful, you must also find the many people who live east of the park and send their kids to charter schools distasteful as well. You're going to be pretty lonely if that's your criteria for friendship.

OP here. I would rather lonely than surrounded by racists or people who judge people solely on the basis of income (be it high or low!!).

So you do think poorly of people who (i) send their kids to OOB schools; (ii) send their kids to charter schools; and (iii) send their kids to private schools? Really? Yikes.

[Anonymous]

Look, residential segregation is the way life is lived in America. The voluntary kind, that leads to, uh, "high-SES people" living west of Rock Creek Park, and, uh, "middle-class long-time DC residents" to move to communities in PG county. People like to be at ease among their neighbors, no doubt, and that behavior, repeated by many people over time, leads to neighborhoods where people are surrounded by kindred spirits.

I'm not interested in perpetuating that, even if it's at the expense of some of my own ease around my neighbors, and I hope that everyone would have higher expectations of themselves.

But I've lived in this country a long time, so I'm not holding my breath.

[Anonymous]

You know what? Lower SES families who make the choice and investment to travel to Hearst are often more engaged that the families who walk there.

You have a self-selected population of engage parents -- like most of the successful Charters -- you'll do just fine there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's lay it out there, super-raw, and have other people qualify it around the edges:

Hearst has way more black students from east-of-the-Park and way fewer children of families with $1M homes.

Slice, dice and qualify it, and I'm sure your friend wouldn't put it that way openly in 2013 in DC, but them's the breaks.

OP here. Thank you. This is actually what I suspected. I am reconsidering my opinion of this person. I don't know much about Hearst but this was my initial thought, just wanted to check with people who might know. People are endlessly disappointing me.

It's probably a little more nuanced than that - SES has a lot to do with it.

OP, if you find this distasteful, you must also find the many people who live east of the park and send their kids to charter schools distasteful as well. You're going to be pretty lonely if that's your criteria for friendship.

OP here. I would rather lonely than surrounded by racists or people who judge people solely on the basis of income (be it high or low!!).

So you do think poorly of people who (i) send their kids to OOB schools; (ii) send their kids to charter schools; and (iii) send their kids to private schools? Really? Yikes.

No, I have a problem with the family I know who were Ok with Janney but not Hearst. I don't know every single person in DC. I have a problem with people who are racist and/or classist. I would hope you would too. This might be why I don't have many close friends in NWDC because many of them I feel are not very nice people. You are free to dislike me and my opinion.

[Anonymous]

Funny, I wonder if we know the same person, OP. I've heard almost exactly the same thing from someone I wouldn't exactly call a friend (for this and many other reasons). They also would be perfectly fine with sending their kids to Murch. In my acquaintance's case, it's also very clear that her position is based on race and class. God forbid her precious little snowflakes have to go to school with kids who aren't white and fairly wealthy.