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could someone respond intellegently to this
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Anonymous
I've been hearing this argument a lot lately ... does Obama really propose extending refundable credits to that large of an extent? As in, this 50% of the population that pays no taxes will get a refund beyond what they've paid into the system? |
Anonymous
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A couple of additional points in addition to the good points that have already been made. The 50 percent comment is wrong not only for the reasons Jeff correctly states but also demonstrates what I think is a common misunderstanding of the way that marginal tax rates work. When we talk about the rate on those making $250,000 going up to a certain percentage, let's say 36 percent, because I cannot remember what the actual numbers are, that percentage applies ONLY to the money that is made above 250K. So, for example, if one makes $251,000, one pays the higher rate on only the last thousand dollars. The practical effect of this aspect of the tax code is that until you make a lot more than the $250K, the actual effects are very small and you do not pay anywhere near that rate on your entire income.
The discussion of payments above income tax payments being "socialist" or otherwise radical make no sense because we already do this and have done it for years. It's called the Earned Income Tax Credit and has had broad political support for years. In fact, if I remember correctly it was adopted in part in response to those who objected to welfare going to those who did not work while not providing anything for those who worked. Finally, as someone whose household income is much above the 250K, and therefore would be directly affected, I think most of us who are so fortunate recognize that our ability to have such financial success is a blessing and not the result of us being somehow better than others, more hardworking, etc. It is troubling to me that this man thinks that all the people who don't have as much financial success as he apparently has had are somehow less hardworking or undeserving. Do I really think my grandparents or my parents, neither of whom ever came close to making that much money, were not hardworking people? The bottom line is that if you are making that much money you are better able to pay the rate that was in place during the Clinton administration (remember how great the economy was then) than those who make a fraction of what you make. |
Anonymous
My husband and I were talking about this last night ... I think the (mostly conservative) pundits are taking advantage of the fact that many people don't quite understand our tax system. (BTW, I am not saying that specifically jdecker doesn't understand, just highlighting his quote because that statistic has been thrown around a lot in the past few days.) This 50% figure - and sometimes its the more accurate 40% figure (based on an IRS estimate that 37.2 tax "units" don't pay income tax) - ignores payroll taxes, which for many average or low-earning Americans are more of a burden than the income tax. Everyone with a job pays payroll taxes, and they aren't part of your refund from the IRS. Payroll taxes are meant to support Social Security and Medicare, but are often diverted to pay for other government expenses like the war in Iraq. So the idea that 50% of Americans are not contributing to the country's revenues is just misleading. |
Anonymous
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I have no sympathy for Cory the well driller. America was built on self reliance and hard work? Puh leeze. I'm white, so it pains me to say it, but: America was (significantly) built on SLAVERY and later the terrible abuse of workers by industry before Unions and GOVERNMENT came in and regulated labor.
After a brief expansion of economic well being and equality among americans of varying races and both genders in the last decades, we are once again developing a serious problem with the disappearance of the middle class, and an increase of the gap between the haves and have nots. More wealth is in the hands of the wealthiest. We once again are looking at becoming a nation of (said it before on this board) Lords and Serfs. Cory, pay your damn taxes and quit yer whining. Do you have any idea how lucky, how comparatively RICH you are when you look at most Americans, never mind most people alive around the world today??? I can barely pay my bills but yes, I DO feel it is my patriotic duty to pay my taxes. |
Anonymous
| well said! |
Anonymous
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One more point: Miller blames liberals for all the problems. How much of the past half century have we had a government where liberals have had control? As in many discussions, buzzwords do more to confuse than to clarify.
Perhaps I'm as paranoid as he is, but his diatribe sounds to me almost exactly like the classic complaint about the"Jews who control the media and the banks". It's fortunate for Miller that it is still acceptable to be anti-liberal, now that Jews are off-limits. |
Anonymous
| Wow! That is so not compelling. His effective tax rate is very likely much better than his employees' tax rate. |
Anonymous
Anonymous
This post is ignorant. Yes, there was slavery, but the country was NOT built on slavery. You are against Cory because you are part of the problem, suck the ones that worked their ass off dry, and give it all to the ones that do not want to work hard. If you can not pay your bills, get another job. Get off the computer, that cost money! Set your priorities. Puh lezze. So what if he is rich, you are missing the point, he worked hard for his money, started from the bottom. Why should he pay for those that do not want to do the same. |
Anonymous
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you know I find it funny how some people make it sound as though Cory will have to physically hand that extra 3% of taxes to some bum hanging out on the street talking trash and not contributing to society.
This is just such a simplified way of looking at paying taxes. This country is in trouble, the government will need money to fix it. A nurse who stands on her feet 12 hours a day making 60k will be hit harder by tax increases than someone making over 200k a year. That's just the way it is. We all gotta eat. You're not giving those 3% to the nurse, you're paying it to the IRS who then in return can make more money available to the government who then can fund all these programs that are needed to stabilize the economy. I am a much happier person if I don't feel like I am being ripped of at the grocery store. So if prices go down or if people have more money to pay for food that's something everyone benefits from. If I can eat, I am more productive. If I have money left over by the end of the month, I can pay for my education. And hey maybe then I can be like Cory... and if not me, then maybe my kids can. But I hardly doubt Cory actually cares about anyone but himself. He doesn't care about the country's current crisis. At the end of the day he is saying: as long as they don't want my money, I really don't give a crap. |
Anonymous
| We are not making charitable donations. Many will get huge property tax rate increases to more than make up for any deficits. Less disposable income even if Federal stayed constant. FYI I've heard of people in nice new homes who have no doc foreclosures in their neighborhood where the "owner" was a landscaper. All politics are local and Obama has started a class warfare that will dig into evryone whose kids do not qualify for free and reduced price federal meal school lunch programs. |
Anonymous
This post is almost entirely incomprehensible. What are you saying? You are saying that property taxes are going to go up and make up for any deficits in government revenues? That helps localities but property taxes don't affect the feds. And why on earth would property taxes go up? The end of the housing disaster is nowhere in site. I live in Fairfax where housing costs lead the nation, and our property taxes have been going down. As for " FYI I've heard of people in nice new homes who have no doc foreclosures in their neighborhood where the "owner" was a landscaper." What does this have to do with anything? And as for your final statement, re class warfare and school lunch programs, this is ridiculous. The class warfare has been going on for 8 years as the rich have, time and again, as seen in the news across America, robbed from their workers to give to their management. Enron, AIG (spa treatment on the taxpayer's dime anyone) are two quick examples that come to mind. Nobody is talking about taking about impoverishing you or me or other white collar, educated, working, comparatively highly comped people. We are talking about health care for all Americans. I'd rather have my tax dollars go to that than some war half way around the world where the citizens don't even want us there. Are you the usual lone Republican troll or what??? |
Anonymous
| My conjecture: The tanking economy will have effects on our lives that dwarf anything in the tax code. Furthermore, it's a stretch to expect any changes that go through to look like what O or McC are proposing. |
Anonymous
Exactly. They are both either dreaming or lying about what they hope to accomplish with tax cuts. Unfortunately, we voters are such that we want people to lie to us about these things or I expect they would both tell us a completely different story. |
Anonymous
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There are many people in this country who worked hard to earn what they got. They are honorable and deserving of respect. Unfortunately, they also want a lot of benefits - social security, medicare, and a strong national defense. That comes from taxes. If you want these things, you should not complain. If you don't want these things, you should vote for someone willing to cut them. Neither of the two major candidates does, however.
So is Obama worse because he knows we have to raise taxes to pay for them? Or is McCain worse because he is willing to run significantly larger deficits to fund his programs - the same kind of profligate spending that people now point to in the housing crisis? For my part, I am done with denial of fiscal reality. And I do take a hit under Obama's tax policies. And I accept that, because I want a country that provides social security, medicare, and a strong national defense. It does not make sense to me to get angry at a candidate who says we can't have it all for free. |