Yu Ying. What's better- one way or two way immersion

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As someone whose job requires that I take occasional assignments for a year or two outside the area, and then return, this topic is of great interest to me. It is VERY important that my children are able to return to a school they've been successful at, if they meet all the other requirements. Obviously there are lots and lots of students who move into the district above the 1st grade. Are we to accept that none may attend a bilingual charter? My kids can keep up the language skills required (esp. as my next assignment may be in CHINA).

I would ask that we keep this discussion focused on-topic of letting older kids with language skills test in and avoid talk of race or other issues.

The simple fact is that for any family here who serves in the military, or is in the civil service, or foreign service, this is a vital issue. It is sad, and hard for me to fathom, that DC public school policy turns its back on the kids of families who serve their country. This has got to change.

It's not so much a policy issue as a numbers issue. The city is a small public school district. There are many practical challenges here.

Which language tests would be used and who will pay to administer them? What if not enough students pass the test, or many turnover with parent assignments, and a school loses funding due to falling enrollment? What if a school attracts plenty of fluent target language speakers but not enough proficient English students to keep DC CAS scores up? (For example, a child could read and write in French fluently, but score basic or below in math because of English-only tests.) What if federal spending continues to plummet and there are significantly fewer public sector professionals? Of these, how many would consider immersion as "vital" for their long-term quality of life? Then there's federal disability laws pertaining to special education (in English only).

While it's not impossible that language screening tests could be allowed, it just seem improbably that they could be implemented by DCPS or charter schools in any meaningful way in the near future given the legally-binding requirements on public schools.

Are there places that use language screening for charter schools? How do they do it?

[Anonymous]

Back filing in the upper grades should be allowed - those spots just remain empty when someone leaves. Not testing in at the school entry point, that could be skewed, but allowing upper level seats to be filled with speakers of the target language is what makes most sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone whose job requires that I take occasional assignments for a year or two outside the area, and then return, this topic is of great interest to me. It is VERY important that my children are able to return to a school they've been successful at, if they meet all the other requirements. Obviously there are lots and lots of students who move into the district above the 1st grade. Are we to accept that none may attend a bilingual charter? My kids can keep up the language skills required (esp. as my next assignment may be in CHINA).

I would ask that we keep this discussion focused on-topic of letting older kids with language skills test in and avoid talk of race or other issues.

The simple fact is that for any family here who serves in the military, or is in the civil service, or foreign service, this is a vital issue. It is sad, and hard for me to fathom, that DC public school policy turns its back on the kids of families who serve their country. This has got to change.

It's not so much a policy issue as a numbers issue. The city is a small public school district. There are many practical challenges here.

Which language tests would be used and who will pay to administer them? What if not enough students pass the test, or many turnover with parent assignments, and a school loses funding due to falling enrollment? What if a school attracts plenty of fluent target language speakers but not enough proficient English students to keep DC CAS scores up? (For example, a child could read and write in French fluently, but score basic or below in math because of English-only tests.) What if federal spending continues to plummet and there are significantly fewer public sector professionals? Of these, how many would consider immersion as "vital" for their long-term quality of life? Then there's federal disability laws pertaining to special education (in English only).

While it's not impossible that language screening tests could be allowed, it just seem improbably that they could be implemented by DCPS or charter schools in any meaningful way in the near future given the legally-binding requirements on public schools.

Are there places that use language screening for charter schools? How do they do it?

None of the issues you raise are very difficult to overcome. Arlington, VA has a couple of language-magnet schools, such as Key Elementary which teaches Spanish. Admission past 2nd grade requires the child have skills in that language. It works well over there. Why not here?

[Anonymous]

^^ This. The excuses with respect to DC providing common sense options for parents like back filling seats is really pathetic.

[Anonymous]

The tricky issue would be who is allowed to test in. If it's just native Mandarin speakers, little point, there are hardly any in DC. If it's also kids who have learned Mandarin as well a second language outside YY, and/or are fluent in other Chinese dialects (those who could probably cope with YY level Mandarin after a summer immersion course), you'd have more than enough to replace drop-outs.

My own children speak the dreaded Cantonese and have started learning to write Chinese characters in preschool. But we would only be interested in YY if it had at least one native-speaking administrator, like most of the other dialect-speaking DC families we know.

Changing the policy on replacing drop-outs would only be half the battle in attracting more native speakers from 2nd grade up. YY would need to become more native speaker friendly for this to work. Above all, a structured system for dialect transition support would be needed. Chinese immersion programs around the country offer good models, particularly those in NC, CA and NY. If dialect transition were a formidable barrier, China couldn't start full Mandarin immersion, nation-wide, at age 5 or 6. It does and so could YY.

No more snark about Cantonese speakers for once, please. Everybody but the most insecure has surely had enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:the dc charter school reform act is federal law, not public charter school board policy or interpretation. I applaud an effort to change it, but it will be harder than lobbying the charter school board.

Um..by the same token, the rest of the DC Code is federal law....and yet the code changes all of the time, because the council is lobbied, and congressional oversight generally (unless "controversial" like methadone or abortion) goes along with the council's recommendation. I think we need to have the PCSB at least not publicly oppose back-filling. Frankly, congres would love to expand charter schools even further. We need to Catania and Grosso onboard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The tricky issue would be who is allowed to test in. If it's just native Mandarin speakers, little point, there are hardly any in DC. If it's also kids who have learned Mandarin as well a second language outside YY, and/or are fluent in other Chinese dialects (those who could probably cope with YY level Mandarin after a summer immersion course), you'd have more than enough to replace drop-outs.

In MoCo kids can test in if they're fluent in a dialect - they have to get through a tough interview demonstrating fluency. Within a school year of being admitted at age 7 or 8, such kids are generally among the strongest Mandarin students.

I can't see YY going for this without a native speaking admin. YY's admins are not in a position to understand the relationship between Mandarin and other dialects, and neither are 95% of the parents. YY thinks Mandarin is Chinese, period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the dc charter school reform act is federal law, not public charter school board policy or interpretation. I applaud an effort to change it, but it will be harder than lobbying the charter school board.

Um..by the same token, the rest of the DC Code is federal law....and yet the code changes all of the time, because the council is lobbied, and congressional oversight generally (unless "controversial" like methadone or abortion) goes along with the council's recommendation. I think we need to have the PCSB at least not publicly oppose back-filling. Frankly, congres would love to expand charter schools even further. We need to Catania and Grosso onboard.

The charter law has already been amended twice. Not a huge deal to amend it a third time to back-fill language immersion slots, which happens legally in MoCo, Fairfax and PG County.

[Anonymous]

Here's an irony about YY - some of the Chinese teachers speak Mandarin with pronounced Cantonese accents. Only around half speak Mandarin as their mother dialect. You can even hear a touch of the accent in kids who have these teachers. You can also hear teachers speaking a little Cantonese to the handful of kids who speak some (including one non-ethnic kid). You've got the framework for dialect transition with the teachers. The charter board, administrators and parents may not be on board, but teachers already are.

[Anonymous]

Dumbest thread ever. Leave poor YY alone or work through the school instead of endlessly posting on dcum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dumbest thread ever. Leave poor YY alone or work through the school instead of endlessly posting on dcum.

+1. As it's been said a million times go lobby a politician for backfilling and stop complaining endlessly on DCUM.

The test-in for immersion charters will happen once DC allows preferences for things like G&T, special needs getting preference for programs like Bridges, etc. Not holding my breath...

[Anonymous]

^^^ Which begs the question, "When will DC politicians and the DC public charter board allow charters to pick and choose their students?" Give preferences (other than siblings) and allow the flood gates for preferences to open that will essentially mainly benefit middle/upper middle class non-AAs.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the dc charter school reform act is federal law, not public charter school board policy or interpretation. I applaud an effort to change it, but it will be harder than lobbying the charter school board.

Um..by the same token, the rest of the DC Code is federal law....and yet the code changes all of the time, because the council is lobbied, and congressional oversight generally (unless "controversial" like methadone or abortion) goes along with the council's recommendation. I think we need to have the PCSB at least not publicly oppose back-filling. Frankly, congres would love to expand charter schools even further. We need to Catania and Grosso onboard.

The charter law has already been amended twice. Not a huge deal to amend it a third time to back-fill language immersion slots, which happens legally in MoCo, Fairfax and PG County.

MoCo, Fairfax and PG County have lots of options so filling empty immersion spots by testing-in would not be a big deal. I live in Ward 5 which doesn't have a public middle school and would not be happy if there were open spots at a charter (in my ward no less) that only took students that tested-in. Doesn't seem fair. Where's my kid suppose to go for middle school?

[Anonymous]

Well there will be a new middle school in Ward 5 by August 2014 we are told so your kid can go there if you want. It will have a world language and arts focus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well there will be a new middle school in Ward 5 by August 2014 we are told so your kid can go there if you want. It will have a world language and arts focus.

Yeah, I'm sure it'll be excellent prep for Dunbar. We'll be entering the lottery for DCI and Basis and Latin.