Is 39% tax rate for wealthy really fair?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a democrat, but I'm not sure I understand the justification of the wealthy paying such a high tax rate. Can someone explain this to me? We are middle class and pay about 12%. It seems like 39% is quite high, even for the wealthy. This seems like more than their fair share. What am I missing?

I'm in that bracket...and a Republican. However you may be surprised by my answer:

You're not missing anything. Instead of using "unfair" I'll just say that is is not proportionate.

I don't mind paying more taxes - I can afford to do it, and we ought to do it b/c the country needs help.

However - what I bristle at is that people who pay nothing, get to criticize me for "not paying my fair share". In that regard it probably is just semantics, but if you're paying zero and I'm paying more than zero, how do you get to criticize? I think Mr. Obama should have made everyone pay something even if it means "$100" as a token below a certain income level. While it may not cure the debt problem we have, the "token" amount will make people like me more willing to pay a disproportionate amount of taxes.

Taxes aren't even the problem - it's a spending problem. Even if we all pay what we're supposed to pay - it's less than a ladle-full of water in a bucket. We need to reduce spending in order to close the gap.

Just so long as we are clear about something: It was Republican tax policy (specifically Mr. Bush's) that took tens of millions of lower income people off the rolls. At the time, that was looked upon as virtuous.

I'm not trying to blame anyone for the situation we're in.

I'm objecting to being blamed by those that don't pay anything at all...and also pointing out that you could raise the tax rate to 50% on the rich - and it still won't make a difference.

As for the 10s of millions of lower income people - so what? You don't have to pay taxes. No problem. It doesn't give you a right to criticize the rich who ARE paying imo. If you feel strongly about it - send in $1 to the IRS as a donation. They'll take it. Otherwise I think that those that don't pay anything ought not criticize any of those who do.

Oh, it would make PLENTY of difference. Does it solve the deficit issue entirely? No, of course not. But do say it "won't make any difference" is really disingenuous. There's real revenue there. If you raise the top rate to 50% you'd get a lot more revenue.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a democrat, but I'm not sure I understand the justification of the wealthy paying such a high tax rate. Can someone explain this to me? We are middle class and pay about 12%. It seems like 39% is quite high, even for the wealthy. This seems like more than their fair share. What am I missing?

The only way that you can be middle class and paying 12% income tax is by having significant deductions. If you do the same kind of math for the rich, they are not paying 39% either.

Also, for the "they aren't paying anything" crowd, the poor are paying payroll taxes which are a higher proportion of their income than it is for high earners. A lot of us didn't notice when the payroll tax holiday ended. You can believe the working poor noticed.

I actually don't buy the "but the poor pay payroll taxes" line. And the reason is it's directly tied to benefits they receive later in life. Sure, some die, but the tax you pay is eventually returned to you. At least that's how it is set up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a democrat, but I'm not sure I understand the justification of the wealthy paying such a high tax rate. Can someone explain this to me? We are middle class and pay about 12%. It seems like 39% is quite high, even for the wealthy. This seems like more than their fair share. What am I missing?

I'm in that bracket...and a Republican. However you may be surprised by my answer:

You're not missing anything. Instead of using "unfair" I'll just say that is is not proportionate.

I don't mind paying more taxes - I can afford to do it, and we ought to do it b/c the country needs help.

However - what I bristle at is that people who pay nothing, get to criticize me for "not paying my fair share". In that regard it probably is just semantics, but if you're paying zero and I'm paying more than zero, how do you get to criticize? I think Mr. Obama should have made everyone pay something even if it means "$100" as a token below a certain income level. While it may not cure the debt problem we have, the "token" amount will make people like me more willing to pay a disproportionate amount of taxes.

Taxes aren't even the problem - it's a spending problem. Even if we all pay what we're supposed to pay - it's less than a ladle-full of water in a bucket. We need to reduce spending in order to close the gap.

Who are the people who "pay nothing", I'm curious. (Hint: payroll and sales taxes are "tax")

Oh, and it's not a spending problem, either. It's a "two decade-long wars" problem, and an "exploding cost of health care" problem. Return the tax rates to the Clinton boom years, and implement the ACA (or any other system that gets us spending an per capita amount health care that's on par with every other western democracy) and we're fine out to the horizon...

We're talking about income tax.

Duly noted, but globally, income taxes are shrinking dramatically as a source of revenue for governments, so fixating on them is a bit like complaining that the local video store is stocking fewer Betamax tapes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a democrat, but I'm not sure I understand the justification of the wealthy paying such a high tax rate. Can someone explain this to me? We are middle class and pay about 12%. It seems like 39% is quite high, even for the wealthy. This seems like more than their fair share. What am I missing?

I'm in that bracket...and a Republican. However you may be surprised by my answer:

You're not missing anything. Instead of using "unfair" I'll just say that is is not proportionate.

I don't mind paying more taxes - I can afford to do it, and we ought to do it b/c the country needs help.

However - what I bristle at is that people who pay nothing, get to criticize me for "not paying my fair share". In that regard it probably is just semantics, but if you're paying zero and I'm paying more than zero, how do you get to criticize? I think Mr. Obama should have made everyone pay something even if it means "$100" as a token below a certain income level. While it may not cure the debt problem we have, the "token" amount will make people like me more willing to pay a disproportionate amount of taxes.

Taxes aren't even the problem - it's a spending problem. Even if we all pay what we're supposed to pay - it's less than a ladle-full of water in a bucket. We need to reduce spending in order to close the gap.

Just so long as we are clear about something: It was Republican tax policy (specifically Mr. Bush's) that took tens of millions of lower income people off the rolls. At the time, that was looked upon as virtuous.

I'm not trying to blame anyone for the situation we're in.

I'm objecting to being blamed by those that don't pay anything at all...and also pointing out that you could raise the tax rate to 50% on the rich - and it still won't make a difference.

As for the 10s of millions of lower income people - so what? You don't have to pay taxes. No problem. It doesn't give you a right to criticize the rich who ARE paying imo. If you feel strongly about it - send in $1 to the IRS as a donation. They'll take it. Otherwise I think that those that don't pay anything ought not criticize any of those who do.

You'll probably be happy to know that lower income people are probably not criticizing you tax rate. Most of them probably don't even know much about tax tables. They're too busy, you know, trying to scrape by on very little.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thanks - lots of good points here, and clears up a lot of my questions.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a democrat, but I'm not sure I understand the justification of the wealthy paying such a high tax rate. Can someone explain this to me? We are middle class and pay about 12%. It seems like 39% is quite high, even for the wealthy. This seems like more than their fair share. What am I missing?

The only way that you can be middle class and paying 12% income tax is by having significant deductions. If you do the same kind of math for the rich, they are not paying 39% either.

Also, for the "they aren't paying anything" crowd, the poor are paying payroll taxes which are a higher proportion of their income than it is for high earners. A lot of us didn't notice when the payroll tax holiday ended. You can believe the working poor noticed.

Well, that is a very good point. I didn't think about that. thanks.

[Anonymous]

Also, for the "they aren't paying anything" crowd, the poor are paying payroll taxes which are a higher proportion of their income than it is for high earners. A lot of us didn't notice when the payroll tax holiday ended. You can believe the working poor noticed.

Many of the poor are not working--therefore not paying payroll taxes.

[Anonymous]

As recently as 1963, the marginal rate for income over about $1,250,000 (this number has been inflation-adjusted) was 91%.

So, folks, educate yourselves before you whine.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Also, for the "they aren't paying anything" crowd, the poor are paying payroll taxes which are a higher proportion of their income than it is for high earners. A lot of us didn't notice when the payroll tax holiday ended. You can believe the working poor noticed.

Many of the poor are not working--therefore not paying payroll taxes.

No shit. But, if people don't have income, what kind of taxes do you expect them to pay?

[Anonymous]

Nothing in this world is fair. Just pay up and shut up

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a democrat, but I'm not sure I understand the justification of the wealthy paying such a high tax rate. Can someone explain this to me? We are middle class and pay about 12%. It seems like 39% is quite high, even for the wealthy. This seems like more than their fair share. What am I missing?

I'm in that bracket...and a Republican. However you may be surprised by my answer:

You're not missing anything. Instead of using "unfair" I'll just say that is is not proportionate.

I don't mind paying more taxes - I can afford to do it, and we ought to do it b/c the country needs help.

However - what I bristle at is that people who pay nothing, get to criticize me for "not paying my fair share". In that regard it probably is just semantics, but if you're paying zero and I'm paying more than zero, how do you get to criticize? I think Mr. Obama should have made everyone pay something even if it means "$100" as a token below a certain income level. While it may not cure the debt problem we have, the "token" amount will make people like me more willing to pay a disproportionate amount of taxes.

Taxes aren't even the problem - it's a spending problem. Even if we all pay what we're supposed to pay - it's less than a ladle-full of water in a bucket. We need to reduce spending in order to close the gap.

Who are the people who "pay nothing", I'm curious. (Hint: payroll and sales taxes are "tax")

Oh, and it's not a spending problem, either. It's a "two decade-long wars" problem, and an "exploding cost of health care" problem. Return the tax rates to the Clinton boom years, and implement the ACA (or any other system that gets us spending an per capita amount health care that's on par with every other western democracy) and we're fine out to the horizon...

We're talking about income tax.

Well how convenient.

But, no, we stopped talking about income tax when PP said "some people don't pay tax."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a democrat, but I'm not sure I understand the justification of the wealthy paying such a high tax rate. Can someone explain this to me? We are middle class and pay about 12%. It seems like 39% is quite high, even for the wealthy. This seems like more than their fair share. What am I missing?

I'm in that bracket...and a Republican. However you may be surprised by my answer:

You're not missing anything. Instead of using "unfair" I'll just say that is is not proportionate.

I don't mind paying more taxes - I can afford to do it, and we ought to do it b/c the country needs help.

However - what I bristle at is that people who pay nothing, get to criticize me for "not paying my fair share". In that regard it probably is just semantics, but if you're paying zero and I'm paying more than zero, how do you get to criticize? I think Mr. Obama should have made everyone pay something even if it means "$100" as a token below a certain income level. While it may not cure the debt problem we have, the "token" amount will make people like me more willing to pay a disproportionate amount of taxes.

Taxes aren't even the problem - it's a spending problem. Even if we all pay what we're supposed to pay - it's less than a ladle-full of water in a bucket. We need to reduce spending in order to close the gap.

Who are the people who "pay nothing", I'm curious. (Hint: payroll and sales taxes are "tax")

Oh, and it's not a spending problem, either. It's a "two decade-long wars" problem, and an "exploding cost of health care" problem. Return the tax rates to the Clinton boom years, and implement the ACA (or any other system that gets us spending an per capita amount health care that's on par with every other western democracy) and we're fine out to the horizon...

We're talking about income tax.

Duly noted, but globally, income taxes are shrinking dramatically as a source of revenue for governments, so fixating on them is a bit like complaining that the local video store is stocking fewer Betamax tapes.

I'm tired of all these filthy parasites who don't pay any capital gains taxes. Until you do, you need to shut your stinking pieholes.

[Anonymous]

see above, yes, it's fair; it's marginal.

It's far lower than it was when I was a kid (1960s)....

As they used to say, if you don't like it, move to Russia.

[Anonymous]

I think everyone should have to at be the same percentage across the board. No deductions. No tax returns. Flat rate like sales tax. I am not in that bracket and i still don't believe that people who work their butt off should have to pay more taxes. It is the Robin Hood effect.

[Anonymous]

Why should people pay taxes if people are allowed to break the immigration laws. It's just as moral to improve your life by welching on taxes as it it to sneak into a country and use free education for your kids and use the emergency room for free get food stamps etc.