Religious Continuum?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This same question "Can we or should we as non-Catholics send out DC to Catholic schools?" comes up repeatedly in various forms on this forum.

Sometimes its non-Catholics attracted by the geographic convenience of Catholic grammar schools. Sometimes its parents who see all the problems in free public schoosl and don't like the Independent schools for lots of reasons including the price tag. Some want the values that are taught and the discipline in the Catholic schools.

There are enough anecdotes that float around to make it seem plausible. (e.g."I have a non-Catholic friend who sent her son to a Catholic school and it was a good experience.".

But what these people shopping for the middle ground between the Publics and the Independents can't see are the downsides. And it should not came as a surprise that there are some. These schools are not there to provide non-Catholics a safe haven from the publics and a discount from the Independents. When the schools admit non-Catholics its because they have the space and can use the tuition money or the student has some sort of special quality or skill they want. They certainly aren't interested in religious diversity.

The impact on a child of being a minority among a majority never seems to be considered. Children consciously and sub-conciously struggle to be like those that surround them.

So when DD marries Sean from Gonzaga, converts to Catholicism, has 5 kids names Cullen, Colin, Meghan, etc, and talks a lot with her Catholic friends about Novenas and First Communions, her parents shouldn't be too surprised?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So when DD marries Sean from Gonzaga, converts to Catholicism, has 5 kids names Cullen, Colin, Meghan, etc, and talks a lot with her Catholic friends about Novenas and First Communions, her parents shouldn't be too surprised?

If she married a guy from Gonzaga and those things happened, I'd be *very* surprised. The reality is that the Catholic upper classes in Washington have become virtually indistinguishable from their non-Catholic peers in terms of values and attitudes. In fact, they often bend over backward to prove they fit in to what constitutes polite society here. As a PP wrote, read "God and Man at Georgetown Prep" ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So when DD marries Sean from Gonzaga, converts to Catholicism, has 5 kids names Cullen, Colin, Meghan, etc, and talks a lot with her Catholic friends about Novenas and First Communions, her parents shouldn't be too surprised?

If she married a guy from Gonzaga and those things happened, I'd be *very* surprised. The reality is that the Catholic upper classes in Washington have become virtually indistinguishable from their non-Catholic peers in terms of values and attitudes. In fact, they often bend over backward to prove they fit in to what constitutes polite society here. As a PP wrote, read "God and Man at Georgetown Prep" ...

Not our experience. Even the well heeled Catholics tend to run in the same circle with other well-heeled Catholics. That is why there's a Columbia CC. That is why they send their kids to Prep and Gonzaga and not Landon or St Albans. These head nods to "polite society" are just feints.

Read anything by Patrick Buchanan. He's more in tune than a single GP grad.

[Anonymous]

+1

Exhibit A: Martin O'Malley
Bethesda-born
Our Lady of Lourdes
Gonzaga
Catholic University

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So when DD marries Sean from Gonzaga, converts to Catholicism, has 5 kids names Cullen, Colin, Meghan, etc, and talks a lot with her Catholic friends about Novenas and First Communions, her parents shouldn't be too surprised?

If she married a guy from Gonzaga and those things happened, I'd be *very* surprised. The reality is that the Catholic upper classes in Washington have become virtually indistinguishable from their non-Catholic peers in terms of values and attitudes. In fact, they often bend over backward to prove they fit in to what constitutes polite society here. As a PP wrote, read "God and Man at Georgetown Prep" ...

You need to put that book down and get out into Washington more.

The Catholics we know aren't "bending over backward to prove they fit in to ... polite society". They have their own polite society.

They even have their own system of geography. Locations are identified based on what parish they are in, even when the parish no longer exists.

[Anonymous]

I'm Catholic but grew up in the Midwest. My experience is that most Catholics in Washington, like people from other faith traditions, come from other parts of the country.

I get the sense that there is a small, elite society of upper-crusty Catholics in NW DC and BCC, mostly Irish-American, who display the cliquish tendencies cited by PPs. But the large majority of other Catholics blend pretty seamlessly into the larger society.

My kids go to a parochial school with a sizable non-Catholic minority and I've never heard a comment from any of the non-Catholic parents that they feel marginalized or excluded.

Even many of the Catholic parents, especially younger ones, grew up as non-Catholics and joined the Church as adults. The days of ethnic Catholic ghettoes are long gone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm Catholic but grew up in the Midwest. My experience is that most Catholics in Washington, like people from other faith traditions, come from other parts of the country.

I get the sense that there is a small, elite society of upper-crusty Catholics in NW DC and BCC, mostly Irish-American, who display the cliquish tendencies cited by PPs. But the large majority of other Catholics blend pretty seamlessly into the larger society.

My kids go to a parochial school with a sizable non-Catholic minority and I've never heard a comment from any of the non-Catholic parents that they feel marginalized or excluded.

Even many of the Catholic parents, especially younger ones, grew up as non-Catholics and joined the Church as adults. The days of ethnic Catholic ghettoes are long gone.

Sure, why not? Come one, come all. Forget that these Catholic schools were built in large part with quarters and dimes from the collection baskets at Mass.

Enjoy our discounted private schools. Keep your kids out of the Public schools. De-program your kids when they come home.

Game the system if you want. It's hard to stop the desperate.

But we aren't stupid. We see and know what you are doing.

[Anonymous]

A couple of observations:

I would not consider Gonzaga small. It has right around 1000 kids. Definitely smaller than most publics, but larger than most 9-12 privates.

I have two kids who graduated from Good Counsel (GC). We are Catholic but not practicing. My kids never felt isolated and had no problems making friends. There was no stigma for them or for their friends who were not Catholic. There religion classes were mostly comparative religion classes. They did have mass once a week and on special events. Actually, GC was large enough that even within the school, there was a continum even among Catholics.

Now, there are the kids I am talking about. I am sure that the parents were a bit more "clique-y" as most of their social circle revolved around their parish, grammar school and CYO. But we had a more diverse set of friends coming in and that stayed true throughout our kids time there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm Catholic but grew up in the Midwest. My experience is that most Catholics in Washington, like people from other faith traditions, come from other parts of the country.

I

That just isn't true. especially in NW DC and associated parts of Maryland.

If you come from out-of-town and move into a neighborhood full of transients, it just might look that way to you. Don't assume your experience is typical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A couple of observations:

I would not consider Gonzaga small. It has right around 1000 kids. Definitely smaller than most publics, but larger than most 9-12 privates.

I have two kids who graduated from Good Counsel (GC). We are Catholic but not practicing. My kids never felt isolated and had no problems making friends. There was no stigma for them or for their friends who were not Catholic. There religion classes were mostly comparative religion classes. They did have mass once a week and on special events. Actually, GC was large enough that even within the school, there was a continum even among Catholics.

Now, there are the kids I am talking about. I am sure that the parents were a bit more "clique-y" as most of their social circle revolved around their parish, grammar school and CYO. But we had a more diverse set of friends coming in and that stayed true throughout our kids time there.

With only 250 students in each class and such a huge demand from legacies and the various parishes, I wouldn't think that Gonzaga is much of a possibility for non-Catholics without some sort of outstanding special skill or attribute. Because it is so easy to reach via the Metro, Gonzaga is accessible to many Catholics throughout the Metro area. And, while the DC Catholics know about it, its location has got to be off-putting to many DC area newbies and non-Catholics.

Good Counsel is much more like a Montgomery County Public School than it is Gonzaga or Prep. It's large and diverse and co-ed. One wonders what the attraction would be to Good Counsel for non-Catholics given the quality of the public schools within commuting distance of Olney.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A couple of observations:

I would not consider Gonzaga small. It has right around 1000 kids. Definitely smaller than most publics, but larger than most 9-12 privates.

I have two kids who graduated from Good Counsel (GC). We are Catholic but not practicing. My kids never felt isolated and had no problems making friends. There was no stigma for them or for their friends who were not Catholic. There religion classes were mostly comparative religion classes. They did have mass once a week and on special events. Actually, GC was large enough that even within the school, there was a continum even among Catholics.

Now, there are the kids I am talking about. I am sure that the parents were a bit more "clique-y" as most of their social circle revolved around their parish, grammar school and CYO. But we had a more diverse set of friends coming in and that stayed true throughout our kids time there.

With only 250 students in each class and such a huge demand from legacies and the various parishes, I wouldn't think that Gonzaga is much of a possibility for non-Catholics without some sort of outstanding special skill or attribute. Because it is so easy to reach via the Metro, Gonzaga is accessible to many Catholics throughout the Metro area. And, while the DC Catholics know about it, its location has got to be off-putting to many DC area newbies and non-Catholics.

Good Counsel is much more like a Montgomery County Public School than it is Gonzaga or Prep. It's large and diverse and co-ed. One wonders what the attraction would be to Good Counsel for non-Catholics given the quality of the public schools within commuting distance of Olney.[/quote]

I sent 2 kids there (and the other 2 DID attend MCPS High Schools) so I know EXACTLY what it is like - but thanks. YOU may wonder, but there are plenty non-Catholics there from Montgomery, Howard and Frederick counties who seem to have made that choice. Maybe you should ask one of us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm Catholic but grew up in the Midwest. My experience is that most Catholics in Washington, like people from other faith traditions, come from other parts of the country.

I get the sense that there is a small, elite society of upper-crusty Catholics in NW DC and BCC, mostly Irish-American, who display the cliquish tendencies cited by PPs. But the large majority of other Catholics blend pretty seamlessly into the larger society.

My kids go to a parochial school with a sizable non-Catholic minority and I've never heard a comment from any of the non-Catholic parents that they feel marginalized or excluded.

Even many of the Catholic parents, especially younger ones, grew up as non-Catholics and joined the Church as adults. The days of ethnic Catholic ghettoes are long gone.

Sure, why not? Come one, come all. Forget that these Catholic schools were built in large part with quarters and dimes from the collection baskets at Mass.

Enjoy our discounted private schools. Keep your kids out of the Public schools. De-program your kids when they come home.

Game the system if you want. It's hard to stop the desperate.

But we aren't stupid. We see and know what you are doing.

LOL. As a fellow Catholic, parochial school alum, and DC area native, I find this funny. We do kind of think this way, everybody.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A couple of observations:

I sent 2 kids there (and the other 2 DID attend MCPS High Schools) so I know EXACTLY what it is like - but thanks. YOU may wonder, but there are plenty non-Catholics there from Montgomery, Howard and Frederick counties who seem to have made that choice. Maybe you should ask one of us.

And maybe you ought to ask one of us how we really feel about your using the Catholic schools as an low cost alternative to the Public schools. Although I doubt you would get a straight forward answer.

[Anonymous]

I understand how PP feels about non-Catholics using an educational system built by and for Catholics.

However, non-Catholics typically pay the full cost of educating their children, while Catholic families are partially subsidized by their parishes. Without the additional numbers and higher tuition yield non-Catholics provide, many more Catholic schools would close. That would hardly benefit Catholics, would it?

That's not to mention the Catholic Church's evangelical mission. Just preaching to the choir guarantees a shrinking church.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:SR parent. No one cares or is even interested in what religion you are. If you are concerned, the admissions office will have a non- catholic family call you.

+1 from another SR parent.

My son is in a private Catholic boys' school, not one of the 4 originally mentioned. Both DS and DD attended parochial school from K through 5.

We have had non-Catholic friends in all these schools, and no one cared about each other's religion. Some of the non-Catholic parents have been among the most involved volunteers and most generous supporters of the schools. We've always liked that non-Catholics attended our child's Catholic school, because their choice validated the school, their kids enriched it, and their tuition supported it.

I think there are some anti-Catholic sock puppets on this thread, trying to scare people away from Catholic schools.

So, OP, I'd say you should visit the school, talk frankly to the admissions office about your concerns, talk to non-Catholic families (of which there are many) at each school, and make up your own mind. Don't be scared by a book Pat Buchanan wrote about his insular Irish-Catholic school experience during the Truman administration.