Capitol Hill Montessori @ Logan

[Anonymous]

We are friends with 2 families there. Both plan to leave after this year (K and PK) for reasons above. Don't let a long wait list fool you. It is a decent option for PS (for some), but not always the best option for all.

[Anonymous]

I am certainly not fooled by the long wait list and honestly it wasn't even near my first choice for this past year. BUT it was the best we got into and I have been pleasantly surprised at how well things are going. Great teacher, great parent community, happy child. I have always had reservations about elementary, but truly do not want to leave the school until then, so time will tell I suppose!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:9:14 have you observed the upper grades in action? I think there's a difference between self-guidance and virtually no boundaries. It's borderline Lord of the Flies in there...

That was our issue. One of my children is very self-disciplined and was able to focus just a little bit. My other child took full advantage of all the freedom and did absolutely nothing. I feel like both wasted an entire school year and are suffering greatly because I was too drunk on the CHM@L kool-aid.

The primary program is excellent. Until there's some level of control placed on those elementary classes, especially the big class, I don't see how any child will make any academic progress.

[Anonymous]

I'm a bit of a Montessori noob but how is it that the kids are doing nothing? There's no lessons being taught?

[Anonymous]

Basically the kids can choose what they want to work on, leave their main classroom for French, the library or a special whenever they want, etc. So if the teacher isn't making sure the kids are doing something, it would be easy for them to mess around all day. They philosophy is that the kids should be self disciplined enough to make their own decisions, but these are kids who need to work hard to learn what is necessary and who wouldn't choose goofing off instead?

The primary program works this way too, except that all of the kids stay in the classroom, and they have a set of things they can choose from based on their level. Difference is it works there. Really well.

The elementary teachers are given a large amount of ownership and power to do what is necessary in their classrooms and the principal does not get involved and lets them do as they wish. So elementary experience, to me, will be 100% teacher dependant, which is a big gamble in my opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9:14 have you observed the upper grades in action? I think there's a difference between self-guidance and virtually no boundaries. It's borderline Lord of the Flies in there...

That was our issue. One of my children is very self-disciplined and was able to focus just a little bit. My other child took full advantage of all the freedom and did absolutely nothing. I feel like both wasted an entire school year and are suffering greatly because I was too drunk on the CHM@L kool-aid.

The primary program is excellent. Until there's some level of control placed on those elementary classes, especially the big class, I don't see how any child will make any academic progress.

Nothing could be further from the truth. I have not drunk any kool aid but I have had both my kids go through the elementary program at this school and they and their classmates emerged way ahead of kids in traditional. It may seem counter-intuitive but the results speak for themselves. It may look like chaos but the kids are working and develop a work ethic that stays with them for a very long time. It is particularly noticeable in math where what the pp calls "lack of boundaries" means that the kids can go way beyond the traditional curriculum. But I also saw it in language, drama, and history. A number of parents seem to have a lose of nerve about the program in elementary but taking their kids out half way through to me is a big mistake. Some parents seem to be overwhelmed by the sense of chaos rather than looking how what the children become over the entire elementary experience. Kids have to experience some freedom before they can make genuine choices. Once they start making the choices that is when the whole thing comes together. The parents I know who let their kids go through and graduate have absolutely no regrets. It is an awesome program. No kool aid needed.

[Anonymous]

We are loving primary now and while the mixed reviews on elementary make me nervous, I can only speak from what I have experience with and it has been all positive so far. My 3 year old is happy and thriving, and almost too independent!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9:14 have you observed the upper grades in action? I think there's a difference between self-guidance and virtually no boundaries. It's borderline Lord of the Flies in there...

That was our issue. One of my children is very self-disciplined and was able to focus just a little bit. My other child took full advantage of all the freedom and did absolutely nothing. I feel like both wasted an entire school year and are suffering greatly because I was too drunk on the CHM@L kool-aid.

The primary program is excellent. Until there's some level of control placed on those elementary classes, especially the big class, I don't see how any child will make any academic progress.

Nothing could be further from the truth. I have not drunk any kool aid but I have had both my kids go through the elementary program at this school and they and their classmates emerged way ahead of kids in traditional. It may seem counter-intuitive but the results speak for themselves. It may look like chaos but the kids are working and develop a work ethic that stays with them for a very long time. It is particularly noticeable in math where what the pp calls "lack of boundaries" means that the kids can go way beyond the traditional curriculum. But I also saw it in language, drama, and history. A number of parents seem to have a lose of nerve about the program in elementary but taking their kids out half way through to me is a big mistake. Some parents seem to be overwhelmed by the sense of chaos rather than looking how what the children become over the entire elementary experience. Kids have to experience some freedom before they can make genuine choices. Once they start making the choices that is when the whole thing comes together. The parents I know who let their kids go through and graduate have absolutely no regrets. It is an awesome program. No kool aid needed.

PP here

I can only speak on my individual experience - and what I posted was true of my experience. My children completed the primary program so we are quite familiar with the philosophies and I agree with you, they were way ahead of their peers when they emerged from primary. However, elementary was pure chaos - for us. I can't speak on your experience, only mine.

9:17 wrote this and I agree:

Basically the kids can choose what they want to work on, leave their main classroom for French, the library or a special whenever they want, etc. So if the teacher isn't making sure the kids are doing something, it would be easy for them to mess around all day.

[Anonymous]

PP here

I can only speak on my individual experience - and what I posted was true of my experience. My children completed the primary program so we are quite familiar with the philosophies and I agree with you, they were way ahead of their peers when they emerged from primary. However, elementary was pure chaos - for us. I can't speak on your experience, only mine.

9:17 wrote this and I agree:

Basically the kids can choose what they want to work on, leave their main classroom for French, the library or a special whenever they want, etc. So if the teacher isn't making sure the kids are doing something, it would be easy for them to mess around all day.

11:08 here. My only point is that it is meant to be "chaos" sort of at least in the early elementary years. If it is all ordered in the classroom then it is either a primary class where order is the key or it is not a Montessori class. Kids have to have freedom before they can make real choices. That is the whole point. So there may be days in early elementary when kids do not appear to be doing much. Certainly my kids had days like that. What you seem to be missing is it is meant to be like that. They are not doing work sheets or busy work. They look like they are just hanging out. They do the odd vague lesson here and there and then it seems like nothing else is happening. I get that we all saw that as parents and worried about it.

Then gradually they learn to chose to work. It is an incredible thing to watch happen. And if you look at the fifth graders that is what they are doing - really working and really learning. They are doing something quite different than a kid in traditional program who is completes the work sheet or write the required book report or what ever. They are actually working in a self motivated and focuses way. My DS at this stage wrote "a book" about USA history. ( It was not really a book of course but it was to him). He became obsessed with knowing everything there was to know about Benjamin Franklin and planned and executed a trip for him and his classmates to Philadelphia to add to his understanding. Later in middle school he went on to win the DC National History Day prize (as have many Montessori Alumni). My daughter on the other hand got obsessed math and Shakespeare. But they could only do that because they were so self motivated to work and that self motivation comes from the freedom. If you pull the kid out of the program when they are at the stage of just acting freely and choosing not to work then you are missing the whole point of Montessori. I know it sounds like an act of faith, and probably does sound like we have all drunk the kool aid but it is not like that. When you see you child with a love of learning, acting in a self motivated, driven fashion in the later elementary years the whole thing suddenly makes sense. The people who leave the program never get to see it and go on endlessly only about the chaos. But from that freedom come genuine self motivation.

I do get that Montessori is not for every parent. You have to let go a bit and trust your child. People used to say that to me and I found it probably as irritating as you do now but I decided to take a deep breath a try it and found they were right. It is an awesome program and the so called 'chaos' at elementary is not an aberration it is key part of the program.

[Anonymous]

Another former primary parent that pulled my dc when it was time to go to elementary. I can't say enough good things about the education my dc received in the 3 years he spent in a primary classroom. However, I was horrified by what I saw in the elementary classroom and hearing about the experience of a friend's child that was in that classroom. I heard "trust the process" but I simply was not willing to gamble with my dc's education. Also, my friends eventually pulled her dc from the elementary program but it took several years for her to catch up to grade level. They also don't tell you about the number of families that use tutors to teach their dc's what they should be learning in their classrooms.

[Anonymous]

Another parent here. One child went all the way through the program, another I pulled early into the elementary years (which are 1st grade through 5th). Bottom line, it's not for everyone, at least not at the elementary stage. I think it's wonderful for primary and dont see how anyone could go wrong with that part of the program.

Elementary, OTOH, is a whole other ball game. If your kid is able to flourish in elementary, good for them. Not all kids are going to be able to maintain an academic level that is reasonable in that type of environment. And that's OK. Doesent mean it's a horrible school, it's just a very specialized unique program that may or may not work well for every child and parent, especially after the primary years.

I will say this, my child that went all the way through was academically behind when he moved onto middle school. Not horrible behind and he was able to catch up wit a little hard work and all is well now, however he was in no way at the same level or above his peers in middle school. I do believe however that there are many other things an elementary kid gains outside of the academic piece.

My other child that we pulled early into elementary, she was extremly behind academically and needed a lot of services to catch up. Our plan was to keep her there just as we did her older brother, all the way through. It became apparent though, that she had different needs and was falling apart academically. When we moved her she was extremly behind and required specialized services to get her to grade level. She worked hard and is fine now.

[Anonymous]

11:08 here. My only point is that it is meant to be "chaos" sort of at least in the early elementary years. If it is all ordered in the classroom then it is either a primary class where order is the key or it is not a Montessori class. Kids have to have freedom before they can make real choices. That is the whole point. So there may be days in early elementary when kids do not appear to be doing much. Certainly my kids had days like that. What you seem to be missing is it is meant to be like that. They are not doing work sheets or busy work. They look like they are just hanging out. They do the odd vague lesson here and there and then it seems like nothing else is happening.

That's the CHM Kool Aid right there. If you are relying on the elementary staff at CHM to explain Montessori theory to you, you are drinking from a tainted well. Their brand of Montessori does not mesh with accepted elementary practice. Elementary Montessori is not at all meant to be chaos. It's meant to be social, sure, but also ordered. The freedom children are given is supposed to be freedom within limits not anarchy. In a true Montessori environment, children are free to choose what tasks they will work on, they are not free to choose not to work at all.

Some children, like yours, may figure out these limits for themselves. The vast majority need guidance to make responsible decisions. The Lord of the Flies analogy was apropos. In the absence of adult intervention, some children make rational choices and some choose to be idle and indolent. At the end of the day, the naughty children end up hunting down the good one's with a pig's head on a stick. That sounds like Capitol Hill to me.

[Anonymous]

From the CHM@L threads, two things seem to be clear: (i) there is general consensus that the primary program is strong, and (ii) there is disagreement with respect to the strength of the upper grades.

The highest grade for which CHM@L test data is available is 4th. The CHM@L proficiencies for 4th grade are as follows: 84.2% for reading, and 78.9% for math.

By way of comparison, the 4th grade numbers for Brent are 66.7% and 73.3%, respectively.

[Anonymous]

Not 16:45, but i dont think they're saying the kids can't read - just saying there are other important things to learn besides book smarts and the CHM kids might be missing some pieces of the puzzle.

[Anonymous]

20:26, where do you find the scores broken down by grade?