Charter Schools giving neighborhood students preference?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a fairness reason under the DC zoning code for why a neighborhood preference for charters makes a lot of sense. DCPS schools were situated as neighborhood schools near residential areas years ago. Any major public school expansion or relocation, rare as that may be, involves a political process where the public can weigh in at various points, but as a zoning matter the public school is located "as a matter of right." For private schools to locate in residential zones, they must go through a "special exception" zoning process in which the community can participate, and impacts like traffic and parking are considered. As private schools typically draw from a wide area and many students and faculty may arrive by car, the process makes sense. They can not locate in residential areas as a matter of right. DC Charters are treated like DCPS schools under the law (i.e., matter of right) but typically have some of the same impacts as independent schools on a residential neighborhood. Becaue there is no hearing process to consider neighborhood impacts of such schools, it makes sense to mitigate their impact somewhat by providing a neighborhood preference of some scope of type.

That was super long. Are you saying it is a parking issue? Or is there more to the essay than that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:certainly not going to happen anytime soon---none of the existing charters (unless they are hard up for kids) will do this.

How would neighborhood preference help anyone when applied to schools that are underenrolled?

It could actually be a big help to the underenrolled schools themselves. Remember, what the Post article discusses is giving preference in cases where charters take over a recently-closed DCPS neighborhood school. So a population that needs a school meets a school that needs a population.

1. Recently-closed schools were generally closed because they were underpopulated, so there is not necessarily this neighborhood population of which you speak; and,

2. Many of the shuttered DCPS schools were not recently closed. Many were closed a long time ago and sit very close to another school (or vacant school building that has itself closed due to underpopulation).
What neighborhood population is seeking to fill all of those buildings? Should we just let them sit while charter schools continue to teach our students in makeshift spaces like we are doing now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a fairness reason under the DC zoning code for why a neighborhood preference for charters makes a lot of sense. DCPS schools were situated as neighborhood schools near residential areas years ago. Any major public school expansion or relocation, rare as that may be, involves a political process where the public can weigh in at various points, but as a zoning matter the public school is located "as a matter of right." For private schools to locate in residential zones, they must go through a "special exception" zoning process in which the community can participate, and impacts like traffic and parking are considered. As private schools typically draw from a wide area and many students and faculty may arrive by car, the process makes sense. They can not locate in residential areas as a matter of right. DC Charters are treated like DCPS schools under the law (i.e., matter of right) but typically have some of the same impacts as independent schools on a residential neighborhood. Becaue there is no hearing process to consider neighborhood impacts of such schools, it makes sense to mitigate their impact somewhat by providing a neighborhood preference of some scope of type.

That was super long. Are you saying it is a parking issue? Or is there more to the essay than that?

I think that's pretty much it. To which I reply - tough noogies. The "neighborhood impact of such schools" runs far behind the needs of kids in DC for improved education. You bought a place near a school, and it's being used as a school - if it's a little tougher to park during school hours, you're just going to have to deal.

The neighborhood preference would benefit more affluent (relatively) families where charter schools are concentrated (WotR) to the detriment or poorer families where there are fewer charters (EotR). This is not a good outcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How would neighborhood preference really help more than just having a single charter school application? With a single application, parents can decide for themselves whether they value the commute or the program better. At this point, they can't do that, they just have to take what they can get, and that is a real problem. But, what makes you think that it wouldn't work itself out for the most part if the lottery included a ranking element?

I'm posting about neighborhood preference because the Council studied it and made a recommendation. Would other approaches be even better? Could be. But I don't hear about decision-makers recommending any.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How would neighborhood preference really help more than just having a single charter school application? With a single application, parents can decide for themselves whether they value the commute or the program better. At this point, they can't do that, they just have to take what they can get, and that is a real problem. But, what makes you think that it wouldn't work itself out for the most part if the lottery included a ranking element?

I'm posting about neighborhood preference because the Council studied it and made a recommendation. Would other approaches be even better? Could be. But I don't hear about decision-makers recommending any.

But they did! They also studied having a single lottery and recommended implementation. My question is whether, for those who still support the neighborhood preference in addition to the single lottery, the single lottery would actually accomplish most of the goals that are also sought by the neighborhood preference supporters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:certainly not going to happen anytime soon---none of the existing charters (unless they are hard up for kids) will do this.

How would neighborhood preference help anyone when applied to schools that are underenrolled?

It could actually be a big help to the underenrolled schools themselves. Remember, what the Post article discusses is giving preference in cases where charters take over a recently-closed DCPS neighborhood school. So a population that needs a school meets a school that needs a population.

1. Recently-closed schools were generally closed because they were underpopulated, so there is not necessarily this neighborhood population of which you speak; and,

2. Many of the shuttered DCPS schools were not recently closed. Many were closed a long time ago and sit very close to another school (or vacant school building that has itself closed due to underpopulation).
What neighborhood population is seeking to fill all of those buildings? Should we just let them sit while charter schools continue to teach our students in makeshift spaces like we are doing now?

I agree. I have gotten the impression that DCPS has/had many schools within blocks of either. Exactly how close do public schools need to be to each other?? Neighborhood preference is a bad idea for charters.

[Anonymous]

Neighborhood preference is bad. Boo Tommy Wells for trying to tinker with success and proposing this. If DCPS wants to create some hybrid neighborhood schools/charters let them go for it. Leave 'normal' charters alone.

[Anonymous]

Isn't Oyster kind of a hybrid? I know it's not a "charter" but it is a specialized school and the only native English speakers are in boundary. So a specialized school exclusively for the ib population, with oob kids that are native spanish speakers. Oyster always makes their own rules anyway.

[Anonymous]

Oyster is actually in a tough spot. you are correct in the inbound/out of bound aspect to have a language balance. however, other than that they have not really been able to 'make their own rules'. That's why they are stuck with funding for one teacher a class in a bilingual program and other weird stuff like that that frankly messes with their program design. the best thing for Oyster to do (and it has been discussed in the past) would be to go charter. It could be the first hybrid--a good experiment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How would neighborhood preference really help more than just having a single charter school application? With a single application, parents can decide for themselves whether they value the commute or the program better. At this point, they can't do that, they just have to take what they can get, and that is a real problem. But, what makes you think that it wouldn't work itself out for the most part if the lottery included a ranking element?

I'm posting about neighborhood preference because the Council studied it and made a recommendation. Would other approaches be even better? Could be. But I don't hear about decision-makers recommending any.

But they did! They also studied having a single lottery and recommended implementation. My question is whether, for those who still support the neighborhood preference in addition to the single lottery, the single lottery would actually accomplish most of the goals that are also sought by the neighborhood preference supporters.

NP here-- the single lottery approach would seem to accomplish the goal, but I was under the impression that charter schools would fight against a single lottery because it would infringe on their independent process. I think it would be great and I hope charters do decide to support a single charter application. It could be done so that each child gets, for example, 10 points to award. If there are no particular schools he has his mind set upon, he can choose to designate one point to each of ten different schools. But if there is really only one school (within his neighborhood, for example) that he wants, he can award all ten to that one school and thereby have a much greater likelihood of getting in to the school. I'm not a charter school parent, but if there were a system like this, I would be much more supportive and interested in considering charter school for my kids.

[Anonymous]

Tommy Wells and Charles Lane should issue a statement listing the charter schools they target to close admission or some portion thereof to ALL kids of D.C.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tommy Wells and Charles Lane should issue a statement listing the charter schools they target to close admission or some portion thereof to ALL kids of D.C.

Read the article. The proposal is to require some neighborhood preferences for charters moving into closed DCPS schools. If a charter doesn't want to alter its admissions policies, that's fine--they can just find another space, and a school more interested in serving the neighborhood can move in instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How would neighborhood preference really help more than just having a single charter school application? With a single application, parents can decide for themselves whether they value the commute or the program better. At this point, they can't do that, they just have to take what they can get, and that is a real problem. But, what makes you think that it wouldn't work itself out for the most part if the lottery included a ranking element?

I'm posting about neighborhood preference because the Council studied it and made a recommendation. Would other approaches be even better? Could be. But I don't hear about decision-makers recommending any.

But they did! They also studied having a single lottery and recommended implementation. My question is whether, for those who still support the neighborhood preference in addition to the single lottery, the single lottery would actually accomplish most of the goals that are also sought by the neighborhood preference supporters.

NP here-- the single lottery approach would seem to accomplish the goal, but I was under the impression that charter schools would fight against a single lottery because it would infringe on their independent process. I think it would be great and I hope charters do decide to support a single charter application. It could be done so that each child gets, for example, 10 points to award. If there are no particular schools he has his mind set upon, he can choose to designate one point to each of ten different schools. But if there is really only one school (within his neighborhood, for example) that he wants, he can award all ten to that one school and thereby have a much greater likelihood of getting in to the school. I'm not a charter school parent, but if there were a system like this, I would be much more supportive and interested in considering charter school for my kids.

That sounds incredibly complicated and likely to lead to results where some children are shut out. Why don't they just rank them by order of preference?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tommy Wells and Charles Lane should issue a statement listing the charter schools they target to close admission or some portion thereof to ALL kids of D.C.

Read the article. The proposal is to require some neighborhood preferences for charters moving into closed DCPS schools. If a charter doesn't want to alter its admissions policies, that's fine--they can just find another space, and a school more interested in serving the neighborhood can move in instead.

"they can just find another space" Do you have any idea how hard that is? After years of playing games with charters on closed DCPS schools to THEN put conditions on them moving into feed up buildings (due to DCPS underperformance). That just gets a heck no! If DCPS wants to transform its own schools into charters and have in-boundary preference let them. Otherwise, let charters function the way they were designed to!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tommy Wells and Charles Lane should issue a statement listing the charter schools they target to close admission or some portion thereof to ALL kids of D.C.

Read the article. The proposal is to require some neighborhood preferences for charters moving into closed DCPS schools. If a charter doesn't want to alter its admissions policies, that's fine--they can just find another space, and a school more interested in serving the neighborhood can move in instead.

"they can just find another space" Do you have any idea how hard that is? After years of playing games with charters on closed DCPS schools to THEN put conditions on them moving into feed up buildings (due to DCPS underperformance). That just gets a heck no! If DCPS wants to transform its own schools into charters and have in-boundary preference let them. Otherwise, let charters function the way they were designed to!

^^ Yes, yes and YES!