New grading system, everyone gets a P no one gets an ES?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think so much of this stems from the fact that everyone considers their child to be a perfect flower that deserves a ES. I know for a fact that my DS doesn't not deserve a DS in writing. He has A LOT of work to go, the fact that he is receiving I's is indicitive of what he is actually doing. I would be very pleased if he received a "P" in writing. I have seen kids in his class that are far and above everyone else and they have received ES. You can see the difference between grade level and above. So teacher's are pushing kids but there is room for the kids to do better. I know that when I see my son's work. Can you honestly say you believe your child deserves an ES? Or do you just want to feel that they are the smartest kid out there. There IS a difference between the work for a "P" and "ES". Let's face it truely gift children are only in the 3% of the class the rest are good but not gifted.

I think you took a wrong turn somewhere...

Its not that everyone thinks there child is exceptional. It has more to do with parents realizing the ever increasing competitiveness of education ( and likewise career possibilities) in the world. Parents indeed may not have a genius in their house but they want to ensure that there child is given the same opportunities to be the best as other kids.

Even if you do not have a gifted child it is clear that average child with greater opportunities/experiences/ etc. will have a better life than average child with less opportunities/experiences/ etc.

Thats the world we live in there are MANY capable people but not enough at the top for everyone..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think so much of this stems from the fact that everyone considers their child to be a perfect flower that deserves a ES. I know for a fact that my DS doesn't not deserve a DS in writing. He has A LOT of work to go, the fact that he is receiving I's is indicitive of what he is actually doing. I would be very pleased if he received a "P" in writing. I have seen kids in his class that are far and above everyone else and they have received ES. You can see the difference between grade level and above. So teacher's are pushing kids but there is room for the kids to do better. I know that when I see my son's work. Can you honestly say you believe your child deserves an ES? Or do you just want to feel that they are the smartest kid out there. There IS a difference between the work for a "P" and "ES". Let's face it truely gift children are only in the 3% of the class the rest are good but not gifted.

Well, I know of a child who is truly gifted in a few areas. She already won awards in nationwide competitions and she is many grades ahead. And yet she gets P. She is given a standard worksheet, she gives the correct answer to everything asked, and she gets P. According to the definition, she does not deserve ES. But how do you expext a 7,8 or 9 year old to take the initiative, answer the questions that are not asked and blow the teacher away on her own?
It seems like ES is very much upto the nature of the teacher, some may be more liberal to give it, some not. But I think grading should not be this subjective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At our back to school night the teacher proceeded to tell everyone that she doesn't plan to give out any grade beyond a P. The teachers in the other classes did not go as far to say this but several parents find it odd that random worksheets are coming homes with Ps on them even though everything is correct on the sheet.

Is this happening at other schools or is it just some craziness introduced by our school? What is the point of have a 4 point scale if you only plan to assess on a 3 pt scale?

Here's the scoop. P means you child met expectations on grade level. If your child is consistently getting Ps, then that means that he/she is only being exposed to P level material and is either not getting ES level work or is getting it and choosing not to do it. Your child can't get an ES unless your child does something that is above grade level. If it is considered on grade level in math to add single digits, and your child does that it's a P. If your child isn't asked to do anything more, than he/she never gets to show if he/she could get an ES.

If your child is given problems adding two and three digit numbers and does this correctly that work will get an ES. The problem with 2.0 now is that your child might not actually have received any instruction on how to do this. Kids who already know it will just do it. Kids who could know it if instructed, will now not get the chance.

Another problem is that many of the "ES" level work is labelled as "challenge" and "optional" in the classroom and is a "choice" to do and is only done after the on grade level work is completed. Frankly, many kids are just choosing not to do the "challenge" in the classroom. What kid wants to do twice as much work?

Another problem with the grading system is that it has essentially changed everything to pass/fail. For example, you either get a P on adding or you don't. A parent has no way of knowing what level of mastery is required to get that P. Does Johnny add correctly on 90% of presentations? On 60% of presentations. What level of consistency is required to get a P? It's a total mystery.

[Anonymous]

Students can only earn a P with the new system and Teachers can only deliver "on grade" level subject material to all students in one classroom under curriculum 2.0. The strategic goal is to close the acheivement gap.

[Anonymous]

Yes, if you do the math everyone gets a P and the MCPS achievement gap is closed as "designed". Smoke and mirrors. Sounds like the Republican Presidential campaign. Nontransparency.

[Anonymous]

The last several PPs are totally incorrect. ES is exceptional at the grade level standard, not above grade level. All students, simply be being in the classroom, have an opportunity to earn an ES. Read the standards (visit the CCSS website for reading/writing/math or Mdk12.org for science/social studies. Those standards tell you how to get a P. Demonstrate the standards, as set by the state, not MCPS, and you will get a P. Are teachers still learning how to grade in this way? Sure. Do some reading on standards-based grading. It is research-based and MCPS did not make it up. It is far less subjective than the old system. Teachers will have a learning curve for implementation, but that is to be expected and in the meantime, just ask your child's teacher how his/her grades are being determined. Ask to see their data. They are required to keep multiple pieces of data for each child before submitting report card grades....and if your child is only being graded on yes/no worksheet type assignments, that is another problem entirely.

[Anonymous]

A little perspective:
In France, grades are out of 20 and earning a 20/20 is very rare. When I came to the US, after having sampled German, French, British and Japanese education systems, I was rather horrified at the ease with which many average students could achieve an A. I taught at university, and my supervising Professor actually told me that criticizing students or grading them too harshly was not allowed (fear of being sued?).

I feel that pandering to students' self-esteem in this way is going too far and hurting their chances in the "real world", as well as decreasing US competitiveness.

Now to go back to the new grading system.
The truth is that many teachers will not have time (or bother) to identify the rare, exceptional students that could earn an ES. And many exceptional students will not be able to or will decide not to show they are ES potential.
That's life.

My 1st grader is reading at a 3-4th grade level. Will he get a P or an ES? Interesting.

And don't get me started on the dumbed down, undifferentiated, curriculum. But that's another topic.

[Anonymous]

This reminds me of the European grading system when I studied abroad in college. It was basically impossible to get the highest grade, because that would essentially mean you should be the one teaching the class. I get the concept behind the MCPS policy, but it seems hard to get on board with it when it is such a change from the old grading system and when there is a general climate of fear that they are doing away with differentiation such that smart, capable kids may not get the challenging work they need.

[Anonymous]

And we wonder why all these A students (in some MCPS about half or more on the honor rolls) are so lowly ranked on the global educational ladder?

[Anonymous]

Close the "achievement gap" by offering no acceleration or enrichment and liberal grade inflation. This is the MCPS only "imaginary" goal.

[Anonymous]

I don't see a problem with this grading system. I have two kids under 2.0 and they have each received well-deserved I's, P's and a few ES's on both regular papers and report cards.

Example of I work from my second grader: turning in an incomplete worksheet with a section left blank.

Example of P work from same child: writing a small "book report" consisting of one long paragraph describing the problem and resolution in a book using correct capitalization, with most words spelled correctly and in basic essay format (e.g. topic sentence, a few supporting sentences, concluding sentence).

Example of ES work from same child: when asked "what do you notice about your rock" for a science project: "My rock feels like sandpaper on one side. It looks like cement on the other with little white and little black dots. It has a ledge. It has a circle of red around it." I'm assuming the teacher felt it included a lot of detail and observation for a child at this grade level.

I trust my kids' teachers. The both seem to be learning a lot and gaining a genuine love of learning with the new curriculum. They have been taught plenty, plus seem much more aware of working in a team, taking care of the world and being kind to each other than we ever did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The last several PPs are totally incorrect. ES is exceptional at the grade level standard, not above grade level. All students, simply be being in the classroom, have an opportunity to earn an ES. Read the standards (visit the CCSS website for reading/writing/math or Mdk12.org for science/social studies. Those standards tell you how to get a P. Demonstrate the standards, as set by the state, not MCPS, and you will get a P. Are teachers still learning how to grade in this way? Sure. Do some reading on standards-based grading. It is research-based and MCPS did not make it up. It is far less subjective than the old system. Teachers will have a learning curve for implementation, but that is to be expected and in the meantime, just ask your child's teacher how his/her grades are being determined. Ask to see their data. They are required to keep multiple pieces of data for each child before submitting report card grades....and if your child is only being graded on yes/no worksheet type assignments, that is another problem entirely.

Can you please provide a specific link that has info about "how to get a P". I looked briefly at what you referenced, but these are only the objectives for each grade. It doesn't specify what level of performance gets P or ES. If the standard is adding and subtracting thru 20, what differentiates P from ES. How can kids be "ES" at adding/subtracting thru 20. You either can or you can't.

We have asked our teacher how grades are being determined at back to school night. The answer was ... "I don't know. We don't have any work samples yet, so we don't know yet what is P and what is ES."

I would have thought MCPS would have figured out this before they rolled out the curriculum thru some kind of pilot program, but instead it certainly seems like they are making it up as they go along.

Neither will our school any longer be conducting pre-assessments that find out whether or not the kids already know/can demonstrate the standards at grade level. (If you don't pre-assess kids, then none of the kids demonstrate knowledge of the grade level standards and therefore no one needs to be accelerated!)

[Anonymous]

I can understand the distinction between P and ES in a writing assignment. My kid is getting "P"s and definitely what is deserved because he is not exceptional at writing by any standard.

What I don't understand is the math. He brings home P on every worksheet. Teacher stated at back to school night that P is the best you can get, since getting all the answers right is not exceptional. There don't seem to be any extra worksheets or extra problems. My son seemed a little confused that there was no way to get the best grade, and I have to admit I don't blame him!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The last several PPs are totally incorrect. ES is exceptional at the grade level standard, not above grade level. All students, simply be being in the classroom, have an opportunity to earn an ES. Read the standards (visit the CCSS website for reading/writing/math or Mdk12.org for science/social studies. Those standards tell you how to get a P. Demonstrate the standards, as set by the state, not MCPS, and you will get a P. Are teachers still learning how to grade in this way? Sure. Do some reading on standards-based grading. It is research-based and MCPS did not make it up. It is far less subjective than the old system. Teachers will have a learning curve for implementation, but that is to be expected and in the meantime, just ask your child's teacher how his/her grades are being determined. Ask to see their data. They are required to keep multiple pieces of data for each child before submitting report card grades....and if your child is only being graded on yes/no worksheet type assignments, that is another problem entirely.

Can you please provide a specific link that has info about "how to get a P". I looked briefly at what you referenced, but these are only the objectives for each grade. It doesn't specify what level of performance gets P or ES. If the standard is adding and subtracting thru 20, what differentiates P from ES. How can kids be "ES" at adding/subtracting thru 20. You either can or you can't.

We have asked our teacher how grades are being determined at back to school night. The answer was ... "I don't know. We don't have any work samples yet, so we don't know yet what is P and what is ES."

I would have thought MCPS would have figured out this before they rolled out the curriculum thru some kind of pilot program, but instead it certainly seems like they are making it up as they go along.

Neither will our school any longer be conducting pre-assessments that find out whether or not the kids already know/can demonstrate the standards at grade level. (If you don't pre-assess kids, then none of the kids demonstrate knowledge of the grade level standards and therefore no one needs to be accelerated!)

What you were looking at does explain it-I am looking at an objective right now (first grade social studies): Describe how actions, such as pledging allegiance to the American flag and singing "The Star-Spangled Banner" and "America" are associated with being a citizen.

If a child can do that, they earn a P. The objectives are written pretty specifically. The ES comes in with the child's explanation in the classroom. This is key for math, as a couple of people have asked about. If a teacher is only grading worksheets, they are probably only going to get P's (unless they are asking for written explanations, which is tricky for kids in the early grades). Teachers have been instructed to collect data in a variety of ways-not just worksheets or pencil/paper tests and quizzes. They should be collecting data on 20% of their students each day, so they have some data on each student each week. They can do this in small group instruction, by asking probing questions ("Tell me how you got that answer" or "Tell me why you think that"). If you are only seeing P's, and you feel your child isn't getting an opportunity to earn an ES, ask your child's teacher or wait until conferences to discuss it. You can ask them to show you some of the data points they have and if they are all worksheet type things, ask about what opportunities they've given your child to demonstrate their understanding in a different way.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, I'm the PP and my text got lumped in with the previous poster's.

What you were looking at does explain it-I am looking at an objective right now (first grade social studies): Describe how actions, such as pledging allegiance to the American flag and singing "The Star-Spangled Banner" and "America" are associated with being a citizen.

If a child can do that, they earn a P. The objectives are written pretty specifically. The ES comes in with the child's explanation in the classroom. This is key for math, as a couple of people have asked about. If a teacher is only grading worksheets, they are probably only going to get P's (unless they are asking for written explanations, which is tricky for kids in the early grades). Teachers have been instructed to collect data in a variety of ways-not just worksheets or pencil/paper tests and quizzes. They should be collecting data on 20% of their students each day, so they have some data on each student each week. They can do this in small group instruction, by asking probing questions ("Tell me how you got that answer" or "Tell me why you think that"). If you are only seeing P's, and you feel your child isn't getting an opportunity to earn an ES, ask your child's teacher or wait until conferences to discuss it. You can ask them to show you some of the data points they have and if they are all worksheet type things, ask about what opportunities they've given your child to demonstrate their understanding in a different way.