Honors classes - are they teaching or bragging?

[Anonymous]

12:48 here - yes, the class I described is open enrollment.

[Anonymous]

Also consider that the new math SOLs that started last year have a much lower pass rate. There is probably a lot of pressure on the teacher to get the kids up to speed fast.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:12:48 here - yes, the class I described is open enrollment.

What teacher is saying is a good number of your children don't belong in the class. That 85% failed is not a reflection on her -- it means that too many kids signed up for a class for which they are ill-prepared. She's giving you fair warning.

[Anonymous]

I'd say y'all have a point, but having done more research, there's credible evidence from other past students and from other parents that this particular teacher is very poor. Even in her non-honors classes, the kids are confused. Parents tell me that their complaints to the administration have met with 'yes, we know there's an issue with her but we can't do much about it'.

The facts are the facts. When you have kids on the honors track going through the math classes pulling As and Bs and hit an Algebra 2 honors class and the majority start failing, putting it back on the children without exploring further is absurd.

Having read through more threads on this board (and not being from this area originally), the theme seems to be 'my kid is smarter than yours and your kid doesn't belong where my kid does'. Maybe it's the competitive nature of the DC area, I don't know, but ... wow...

FWIW, I've never been a 'pusher' and don't care if my DC decides not to take honors. I DO care if my tax dollars are paying for teachers who have a history of not teaching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'd say y'all have a point, but having done more research, there's credible evidence from other past students and from other parents that this particular teacher is very poor. Even in her non-honors classes, the kids are confused. Parents tell me that their complaints to the administration have met with 'yes, we know there's an issue with her but we can't do much about it'.

The facts are the facts. When you have kids on the honors track going through the math classes pulling As and Bs and hit an Algebra 2 honors class and the majority start failing, putting it back on the children without exploring further is absurd.

Having read through more threads on this board (and not being from this area originally), the theme seems to be 'my kid is smarter than yours and your kid doesn't belong where my kid does'. Maybe it's the competitive nature of the DC area, I don't know, but ... wow...

FWIW, I've never been a 'pusher' and don't care if my DC decides not to take honors. I DO care if my tax dollars are paying for teachers who have a history of not teaching.

You need to think that statement through a little bit more.

That same attitude that you cite (bolded) also often causes Type A parents to push their own children to do things for which they're not prepared. Similarly, it causes them to push school systems to accommodate their children.

You are describing an "open enrollment" course. Do you understand what that means? There is absolutely no barrier for entry.

Maybe the teacher is bad, that could be a problem. It's also similarly likely that some children are in the class who really do not belong there. This is not a "my kid is smarter than yours" observation; my kids are still in Elementary School, so I have no idea yet whether they'll be able to handle an honors curriculum. But the bottom line is if the teacher in fact is mediocre and the students are ill-prepared, you have a recipe for disaster. And given the self-entitled attitudes that prevail in this area, you have a lot of finger pointing. Of course, when you point a finger, three other fingers point back at you.

Personally I cannot imagine any sort of test in the first two weeks of school that could be based on material the teacher has inadequately taught. So, as one pp said, it sounds like there was an assessment test of some sort to take a baseline of where the class stood. 85% failed, which suggests in that particular case that they are not at the same level from which the class is starting. And she's giving you fair warning she will not dawdle to catch the snowflakes up with the material. That, to me as an outsider who doesn't know you, your school, or anything else about your circumstance, appears to be what is going on here.

[Anonymous]

Perhaps the twenty-five percent who passed are excited to finally have a class that addresses their needs?

As for "always the teacher's fault"
* 25 pct sounds about right to me for an open enrollment honors class protest.
* so, when I had a class of children hand picked for having failed a state competency test, and I still couldn't pass more than half of them by June, was this a success I should be proud of, or all my fault?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps the twenty-five percent who passed are excited to finally have a class that addresses their needs?

As for "always the teacher's fault"
* 25 pct sounds about right to me for an open enrollment honors class protest.
* so, when I had a class of children hand picked for having failed a state competency test, and I still couldn't pass more than half of them by June, was this a success I should be proud of, or all my fault?

I hope you don't teach math. Go back and read the first post again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps the twenty-five percent who passed are excited to finally have a class that addresses their needs?

As for "always the teacher's fault"
* 25 pct sounds about right to me for an open enrollment honors class protest.
* so, when I had a class of children hand picked for having failed a state competency test, and I still couldn't pass more than half of them by June, was this a success I should be proud of, or all my fault?

I hope you don't teach math. Go back and read the first post again.

actually, what I shouldn't be is a typing teacher. chill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd say y'all have a point, but having done more research, there's credible evidence from other past students and from other parents that this particular teacher is very poor. Even in her non-honors classes, the kids are confused. Parents tell me that their complaints to the administration have met with 'yes, we know there's an issue with her but we can't do much about it'.

The facts are the facts. When you have kids on the honors track going through the math classes pulling As and Bs and hit an Algebra 2 honors class and the majority start failing, putting it back on the children without exploring further is absurd.

Having read through more threads on this board (and not being from this area originally), the theme seems to be 'my kid is smarter than yours and your kid doesn't belong where my kid does'. Maybe it's the competitive nature of the DC area, I don't know, but ... wow...

FWIW, I've never been a 'pusher' and don't care if my DC decides not to take honors. I DO care if my tax dollars are paying for teachers who have a history of not teaching.

You need to think that statement through a little bit more.

That same attitude that you cite (bolded) also often causes Type A parents to push their own children to do things for which they're not prepared. Similarly, it causes them to push school systems to accommodate their children.

You are describing an "open enrollment" course. Do you understand what that means? There is absolutely no barrier for entry.

Maybe the teacher is bad, that could be a problem. It's also similarly likely that some children are in the class who really do not belong there. This is not a "my kid is smarter than yours" observation; my kids are still in Elementary School, so I have no idea yet whether they'll be able to handle an honors curriculum. But the bottom line is if the teacher in fact is mediocre and the students are ill-prepared, you have a recipe for disaster. And given the self-entitled attitudes that prevail in this area, you have a lot of finger pointing. Of course, when you point a finger, three other fingers point back at you.

Personally I cannot imagine any sort of test in the first two weeks of school that could be based on material the teacher has inadequately taught. So, as one pp said, it sounds like there was an assessment test of some sort to take a baseline of where the class stood. 85% failed, which suggests in that particular case that they are not at the same level from which the class is starting. And she's giving you fair warning she will not dawdle to catch the snowflakes up with the material. That, to me as an outsider who doesn't know you, your school, or anything else about your circumstance, appears to be what is going on here.

When you stated your kids are still in elementary school, I can see you might not understand why there would be a quiz this early in the game on new material. The teachers now are being evaluated on the class performance ( (see Chicago teacher's strike to gauge reaction). The math dept at my DC high school, like a lot of schools, decided to implement a program this year where a teacher will teach a portion of the chapter, then have a quiz on it to see how well the kids are doing. So in fact, this wasn't review, it was a quiz on the new material presented. As I stated, 85% failed. In my DC school, the children in this algebra honors class came from an honors geometry class last year, i.e. the kids track honors from their freshman year. Only a few will jump to honors from non-honors their second year.

You'll see when your kids move to middle and upper how different things are. Especially upper.

[Anonymous]

I agree that too many kids sign up for honors class. My 7th grader was an A/B student all through elementary. She signed up for one honors class in the subject she has the most interest in. When I talked to parents from her elementary school the vast majority of them stated their kids were enrolled in ALL honors for 7th grade.

I'm not one to judge but most of these students were in the average or even low reading and math groups in 6th grade. I volunteer a lot so I am familiar with the grouping. My DC was in the highest Gen Ed group for all classes except SS in elementary. But that doesn't mean she needs to be in all honors classes.

DC's honors teacher this year was VERY frustrated that several of the students didn't know how to write a proper sentence the first week of school. The assignment was to write an essay about yourself in Honors English but it spiraled into a lesson on proper sentence structure. What a waste of class time in an honors course! I purposefully didn't sign my child up for History or Math honors because I knew those subjects were not a passion of hers and she would likely struggle for a B. She will undoubtedly get A's in those subjects in the standard (non-honors) class, there's no shame in that.

Lastly, just in case the test the OP was referring to was an Ecart test, keep in mind they are assessments to determine where the students are at a given time. Often they are given at the very beginning of the year with no intention of the majority of students passing. Rather to make sure there isn't a student who should move ahead to AAP level course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree that too many kids sign up for honors class. My 7th grader was an A/B student all through elementary. She signed up for one honors class in the subject she has the most interest in. When I talked to parents from her elementary school the vast majority of them stated their kids were enrolled in ALL honors for 7th grade.

I'm not one to judge but most of these students were in the average or even low reading and math groups in 6th grade. I volunteer a lot so I am familiar with the grouping. My DC was in the highest Gen Ed group for all classes except SS in elementary. But that doesn't mean she needs to be in all honors classes.

DC's honors teacher this year was VERY frustrated that several of the students didn't know how to write a proper sentence the first week of school. The assignment was to write an essay about yourself in Honors English but it spiraled into a lesson on proper sentence structure. What a waste of class time in an honors course! I purposefully didn't sign my child up for History or Math honors because I knew those subjects were not a passion of hers and she would likely struggle for a B. She will undoubtedly get A's in those subjects in the standard (non-honors) class, there's no shame in that.

Lastly, just in case the test the OP was referring to was an Ecart test, keep in mind they are assessments to determine where the students are at a given time. Often they are given at the very beginning of the year with no intention of the majority of students passing. Rather to make sure there isn't a student who should move ahead to AAP level course.

I am the OP. I wrote the message above in which I explicitly stated that the test was on the material she had covered to date, the first part of the lesson. It's not Ecart, it's not review. It's on what she taught.

How about instead of people speculating, they read the posts and comment on the information given?

What does it say about the public school teachers here if some of the students didn't know how to write a proper sentence? Why is it the kids' fault? Isn't that what they are supposed to be learning? My DC is in honors math because it IS DC's passion. Consistently As and A plusses. My husband is currently teaching my DC the material. DC states that the kids in the class have stopped asking questions because the teacher can't answer them, or answers something unrelated. She copies the material on the board from the teacher's manual, and when asked to explain why, cannot do so.

Rate My Teacher reviews state she makes mistakes when writing on the board, doesn't know how to post homework to blackboard and won't learn (she told us that she likes to teach the 'old fashioned way'), that her quizzes make no sense, that she's unintelligible. I have to say my DC and I agree with all of this and more, and it's only the third week of school!

Sometimes it IS the teacher. And given your tax dollars are paying their salary, I suggest people understand that it's important for ALL the kids to listen to YOUR kid and see if there's truth to the comments. In this case? Yes.

[Anonymous]

I meant to say it's important for all the parents to listen to their kids and see if there's truth in what they are saying. Sorry, still tired this AM.

[Anonymous]

You totally misread my post. I didn't mean to offend. I wasn't suggesting your child doesn't belong in honors class. I was simply pointing out my point of view in answer to other posts that seemed to question whether honors classes are filled with too many students who aren't prepared for that level course. Then I went on to address your issue by suggesting the test might have been an ecart. Clearly it wasn't. Okay, move on.

Regarding the part of my post that was not directed to you...

In fact, most students are not skilled at writing well thought out sentences by 7th grade. Sure they can relay facts and offer opinions decently but Middle school is when teachers help students broaden writing skills exponentially. It shouldn't be necessary to guide students in sentence writing in honors English because these should be the students that write for pleasure and attend writing classes and camps outside of school. So I don't think the fact that most kids in the class weren't already skilled writers is a reflection of teachers in general. I think they are right where they should be for the general ed curriculum. I just don't think they should take an advanced course unless they show advanced work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You totally misread my post. I didn't mean to offend. I wasn't suggesting your child doesn't belong in honors class. I was simply pointing out my point of view in answer to other posts that seemed to question whether honors classes are filled with too many students who aren't prepared for that level course. Then I went on to address your issue by suggesting the test might have been an ecart. Clearly it wasn't. Okay, move on.

Regarding the part of my post that was not directed to you...

In fact, most students are not skilled at writing well thought out sentences by 7th grade. Sure they can relay facts and offer opinions decently but Middle school is when teachers help students broaden writing skills exponentially. It shouldn't be necessary to guide students in sentence writing in honors English because these should be the students that write for pleasure and attend writing classes and camps outside of school. So I don't think the fact that most kids in the class weren't already skilled writers is a reflection of teachers in general. I think they are right where they should be for the general ed curriculum. I just don't think they should take an advanced course unless they show advanced work.

I wasn't so much offended as frustrated, and not at you. For some honors classes, my kids don't belong - I hear you on that It's weird, the focus on honors people have around here and I agree kids are pushed beyond what they should be and it causes tons of stress on them! My DC is so frustrated because she just doesn't know what to do with a teacher who can't teach! I told her there's nothing that CAN be done by her, unless she switches out. The administrators are not willing to tackle the issue and they don't listen to the parents, so clearly, a teenager can't change it either.

More and more, I think the solution is to go private, where teachers aren't tenured and they have to prove their worth.

[Anonymous]

Go private but you'll likely experience the same thing. Simply put, some teachers are great, most are good and some suck. They are overworked and certainly under paid yet most work their butts off.. For those that don't, stay on them to do better, report them in serious cases, and switch classes if you don't see improvement.
I've worked at a private school and public. There are bad apples in any bunch.