Friends of Akin, a question for you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who are "friends of Akin?" You can be staunch pro-life and think that Akin is a complete douche who should be out of the race.

I can't respond to your hypothetical because it is just hypothetical. To think there will be a perfect storm where all this happens at once is out of the realm of possibility.

Not the OP - but do you really think this is a "perfect storm" - a rare occurrence that only happens because of the confluence of unlikely circumstances?

Someone who is working poor, and has little or no job flexibility and no health insurance, gets pregnant and has complications - this is not "the perfect storm" or even an unlikely scenario.

Not the pp you quoted, but is it possible that she meant that abortion being illegal, no public health insurance at all, and all women's clinics closed by February 2013 is out of the realm of possiblity?

This.
I am sure the working poor, who has little or no job flexibility and no health insurance do get pregnant and have complications. Abortion is still legal, Planned Parenthood is still funded and there is still publicly funded health care. I just don't see all of those going away overnight even if Akin ( you know he isn't running for President right? Romney doesn't have the same view as Akin) wins.

[Anonymous]

But in an ideal republican world, public health would not be funded. Abortion would not be legal. No, of course it won't happen by Feb 2013, but that's the direction they want to take us, right? And in that world, what is a working poor pregnant woman to do? Honest question.

And if the answer is "carry the baby to term and put it up for adoption", how is that different from the Atwood scenario? If you're ok with that, how is the mother to keep a roof over her head and healthy food in the fridge and obtain regular prenatal care while on bedrest for 3, 4, 6 months?

[Anonymous]

Okay, since there are so many arguments against the details of OP's post, let's distill this down.

Romney/Ryan have won the November 2012 election and in January are sworn in. The Republicans have won enough swing states that they now have both a Senate and House majority. In the first 6 weeks, they push through a storm of bills that defund any organization that supports abortion, including PP. Much like DOMA, the Republicans force through a Defense of Children Act and DOCA is the law of the land making abortions illegal. The Republicans have overturned ACA and it no longer requires people to have insurance. A young black woman who works as a waitress in a small diner, making just enough to pay her rent, utilities and food gets pregnant. She finds out that the child has a birth defect that will be costly for medical coverage, but she has no medical insurance coverage because she cannot afford it. She makes just over the poverty level, so is not eligible for Medicaid. Due to complications, she has to take two weeks off to have the baby. She doesn't get paid. She no longer has enough to pay her rent, let alone medical bills.

What is she supposed to do? If she can make it there, she can eat in a soup kitchen, but for the 2 weeks, she's on bedrest so can't take the bus to get to the soup kitchen. And she doesn't have bus fare anyways. But she's not allowed to abort the baby, she is about to be evicted because she cannot pay her rent and she has no means of child support, so even if she could go back to work, she has no one to take care of her child and has to stay home to care for the baby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But in an ideal republican world, public health would not be funded. Abortion would not be legal. No, of course it won't happen by Feb 2013, but that's the direction they want to take us, right? And in that world, what is a working poor pregnant woman to do? Honest question.

And if the answer is "carry the baby to term and put it up for adoption", how is that different from the Atwood scenario? If you're ok with that, how is the mother to keep a roof over her head and healthy food in the fridge and obtain regular prenatal care while on bedrest for 3, 4, 6 months?

Yeah, that's right. Maybe the question should be, "Someone who is working poor, and has little or no job flexibility and no health insurance, gets pregnant and has complications, and Republicans pass everything that they want. No public health insurance, no abortion."

When someone asks you "what happens when you get exactly what you want, and are campaigning for?" it's pretty disingenuous to respond, "well, that is so unlikely to happen it's a perfect storm, so I can't answer the question."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought "pregnancy crisis centers" were mostly baby dealers.

I think the republicans would like to see us in a Margaret Atwood world, where poor women have no choice but to furnish wealthy folks with babies to adopt. When you cannot choose to terminate, and you cannot afford to raise a child, there's not much left, is there?

Well, you can always go to Mexico and have an abortion on the cheap.

And, how, praytell, can a woman living paycheck to paycheck and pregnant, afford to GET to Mexico to have this abortion on the cheap?

[Anonymous]

Pro-lifers out there, why haven't you answered the OP's question? How will a poor woman with no resources have a baby, keep her job, and pay the bills?

How about preschool, doctor visits, health insurance, clothing, medicine, dental appointments. How about when the child is 14, 15, 16...food bills increase year after year. How will this woman possibly be able to afford this??

And remember, it's possible in the opening scenario that she could have been raped. The Republican National platform is opposing abortion with NO EXCEPTIONS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Okay, since there are so many arguments against the details of OP's post, let's distill this down.

Romney/Ryan have won the November 2012 election and in January are sworn in. The Republicans have won enough swing states that they now have both a Senate and House majority. In the first 6 weeks, they push through a storm of bills that defund any organization that supports abortion, including PP. Much like DOMA, the Republicans force through a Defense of Children Act and DOCA is the law of the land making abortions illegal. The Republicans have overturned ACA and it no longer requires people to have insurance. A young black woman who works as a waitress in a small diner, making just enough to pay her rent, utilities and food gets pregnant. She finds out that the child has a birth defect that will be costly for medical coverage, but she has no medical insurance coverage because she cannot afford it. She makes just over the poverty level, so is not eligible for Medicaid. Due to complications, she has to take two weeks off to have the baby. She doesn't get paid. She no longer has enough to pay her rent, let alone medical bills.

What is she supposed to do? If she can make it there, she can eat in a soup kitchen, but for the 2 weeks, she's on bedrest so can't take the bus to get to the soup kitchen. And she doesn't have bus fare anyways. But she's not allowed to abort the baby, she is about to be evicted because she cannot pay her rent and she has no means of child support, so even if she could go back to work, she has no one to take care of her child and has to stay home to care for the baby.

Throw one more factor into the equation - A liberal Justice has resigned due to health, not an unfathomable concept give the age of the justices and pre-existing medical conditions at the moment. The new justice who is ultra conservative is approved. Next very legal maneuver available is employed to overturn Roe V Wade in record time. Now no abortion for any reason is available to any woman in the USA. Both Romney and Ryan have said they want to overturn Roe, this is much closer to reality than is comfortable

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Pro-lifers out there, why haven't you answered the OP's question? How will a poor woman with no resources have a baby, keep her job, and pay the bills?

How about preschool, doctor visits, health insurance, clothing, medicine, dental appointments. How about when the child is 14, 15, 16...food bills increase year after year. How will this woman possibly be able to afford this??

And remember, it's possible in the opening scenario that she could have been raped. The Republican National platform is opposing abortion with NO EXCEPTIONS.

I answered the original scenario, how does a woman deal with the difficult pregnancy with the pregnancy help line. The OP basically admitted that her original strawman of no place for her hypothetical woman to turn in this scenario was wrong because there was a place for help. OP then expanded it to once the baby was born, and you've now expanded it to when the kid is 16. There are a mirade of resources available...I'm very familiar with them because I've done work assisting poor families for years. But I don't have the time to detail every step in the process for 16 years of a hypothetical, but for early years, the pregnancy help lines have resources, past that I would refer you to Catholic Charities and Lutheran Family Services for the appropriate resources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And remember, it's possible in the opening scenario that she could have been raped. The Republican National platform is opposing abortion with NO EXCEPTIONS.

Either it's a baby...a human life...and abortion is wrong. Or it's not a baby, and not a human life, and abortion is an option. I understand, but don't agree, with both of those positions. But I don't understand how anyone can believe that abortion is ok in the case of rape, but not ok the rest of the time? If it's a baby, a human being, how does the horrible act of his/her father change that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I answered the original scenario, how does a woman deal with the difficult pregnancy with the pregnancy help line. The OP basically admitted that her original strawman of no place for her hypothetical woman to turn in this scenario was wrong because there was a place for help. OP then expanded it to once the baby was born, and you've now expanded it to when the kid is 16. There are a mirade of resources available...I'm very familiar with them because I've done work assisting poor families for years. But I don't have the time to detail every step in the process for 16 years of a hypothetical, but for early years, the pregnancy help lines have resources, past that I would refer you to Catholic Charities and Lutheran Family Services for the appropriate resources.

You must be kidding, right?

Please do detail the "mirade" (pretty sure you mean myraid here though, no?) of resources available - Catholic Charities and Lutheran Family Services are fucking jokes. If you think for a second that these organizations provide any real MEANINGFUL help to young, let's say black, jobless women you have got to be kidding me. Do they provide childcare so these women can work? No. Do they provide health insurance? No. Do they provide money for rent? No.

And all those liberal programs that would actually help are likely to be gone under the control of the "Christian" conservative right.

[Anonymous]

Sorry - typo - I meant myriad...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry - typo - I meant myriad...

fabulous. A typo while complaining about a typo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Pro-lifers out there, why haven't you answered the OP's question? How will a poor woman with no resources have a baby, keep her job, and pay the bills?

How about preschool, doctor visits, health insurance, clothing, medicine, dental appointments. How about when the child is 14, 15, 16...food bills increase year after year. How will this woman possibly be able to afford this??

And remember, it's possible in the opening scenario that she could have been raped. The Republican National platform is opposing abortion with NO EXCEPTIONS.

Less people would be poor

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I answered the original scenario, how does a woman deal with the difficult pregnancy with the pregnancy help line. The OP basically admitted that her original strawman of no place for her hypothetical woman to turn in this scenario was wrong because there was a place for help. OP then expanded it to once the baby was born, and you've now expanded it to when the kid is 16. There are a mirade of resources available...I'm very familiar with them because I've done work assisting poor families for years. But I don't have the time to detail every step in the process for 16 years of a hypothetical, but for early years, the pregnancy help lines have resources, past that I would refer you to Catholic Charities and Lutheran Family Services for the appropriate resources.

You must be kidding, right?

Please do detail the "mirade" (pretty sure you mean myraid here though, no?) of resources available - Catholic Charities and Lutheran Family Services are fucking jokes. If you think for a second that these organizations provide any real MEANINGFUL help to young, let's say black, jobless women you have got to be kidding me. Do they provide childcare so these women can work? No. Do they provide health insurance? No. Do they provide money for rent? No.

And all those liberal programs that would actually help are likely to be gone under the control of the "Christian" conservative right.

Actually those programs do provide those services for poor families. St. Martins house, St. Sebastian townhouses, Dorothy Day, St. Margaret of Cartona (sp?), TEN program, etc. I'm sorry you think that's a "fucking joke".

[Anonymous]

Are all pro lifers such hypocritical liars? Please detail this myriad of services available to the poor beyond a homeless shelter
Now, if the scenario is that the mother does not want to carry this fetus to term, be it due defect, mother's health, financial reasons or personal choice other than planned parenthood which has no funds. I guess it's back to the coat hanger/back room