how to approach school about having higher educational standards

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Abstractly, the problem is that private schools have a sense of what they want to be, but what they can be is a function of who enrolls (among other things).

So do you search for a school whose approach to education approximates your own or do you search for a school that has the cohort you want for your kid(s)? Or split the difference?

I'd love to find a school for brainiac kids that isn't a pressure cooker. But that doesn't seem to exist in this area.

Actually, most of the best schools are great for "brainiacs". The pressure cooker only exists if the kids ( and mainly their parents) want the kids to get straight A's, do a million activities and get into Harvard or Stanford. If the families are fine with their kids getting B's instead of straight A's and going to a good college ( but not an Ivy), then the kids can get a great education and enjoy their childhoods at any of the top independent schools here. (I have been teaching in independent schools for 28 years) If you are in education, you probably know what I am talking about. If not, watch the documentary "Race to Nowhere". The pressure depicted in that film is actually being applied by parents, not schools. Give up the dream of crafting the perfect transcript and allow your kid to have fun, enjoy learning, and accept that Stanford probably won't happen. The Ivy's accept about 6% of applicants now. 2-3% of those have a "golden ticket" of some sort ( legacy, large donor, athlete, musician etc). Only the truly brilliant kids are selected form the general pool of applicants. Most people are not truly brilliant. Life will go on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is saying that you don't want to pay the big bucks to have a classroom of SN kid in it a bad thing? I don't want to pay to have your kid mainstreamed. It benefits the SN kid, but what about the rest of the class?

My child is no harm to the other children and I resent your saying that he is. This isn't about "mainstreaming" and I don't know any privates that do this. There are kids at every single school -- yes, including Sidwell, the Cathedral schools, etc -- with ADHD and other developmental issues. They were accepted to these schools because they belong there. Which is all to say that you are paying the big bucks to have your children go to school with SN kids, wherever they are.

Either a school is right for your child or it isn't. You can judge that issue without insulting my child.

There is a wide range of SN children. Those that have slight problems are fine. Those that need special attention should be at their own school. If there is nothing wrong with SN kids then send yours to the schools made for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is saying that you don't want to pay the big bucks to have a classroom of SN kid in it a bad thing? I don't want to pay to have your kid mainstreamed. It benefits the SN kid, but what about the rest of the class?

My child is no harm to the other children and I resent your saying that he is. This isn't about "mainstreaming" and I don't know any privates that do this. There are kids at every single school -- yes, including Sidwell, the Cathedral schools, etc -- with ADHD and other developmental issues. They were accepted to these schools because they belong there. Which is all to say that you are paying the big bucks to have your children go to school with SN kids, wherever they are.

Either a school is right for your child or it isn't. You can judge that issue without insulting my child.

There is a wide range of SN children. Those that have slight problems are fine. Those that need special attention should be at their own school. If there is nothing wrong with SN kids then send yours to the schools made for them.

Nice of you to judge something you know nothing about. Go to hell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is saying that you don't want to pay the big bucks to have a classroom of SN kid in it a bad thing? I don't want to pay to have your kid mainstreamed. It benefits the SN kid, but what about the rest of the class?

My child is no harm to the other children and I resent your saying that he is. This isn't about "mainstreaming" and I don't know any privates that do this. There are kids at every single school -- yes, including Sidwell, the Cathedral schools, etc -- with ADHD and other developmental issues. They were accepted to these schools because they belong there. Which is all to say that you are paying the big bucks to have your children go to school with SN kids, wherever they are.

Either a school is right for your child or it isn't. You can judge that issue without insulting my child.

There is a wide range of SN children. Those that have slight problems are fine. Those that need special attention should be at their own school. If there is nothing wrong with SN kids then send yours to the schools made for them.

This is one of the most intolerant posts I've seen on DCUM, and that says a lot. Hey, maybe the Jewish kids and the African-American kids should also go to "schools made for them." This is nothing but bigotry. Many of us with kids with SN do send our children to SN schools, not to shield your precious darlings from them, but to get them the supports they need. But many also belong on mainstream schools and are doing very well there.

If a school decides that my child belongs there, my child belongs there. I might not like the fact that my child goes to school with the children of bigots and bullies, like yourself, but if the school decides that your child belongs there, your child belongs there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
There is a wide range of SN children. Those that have slight problems are fine. Those that need special attention should be at their own school. If there is nothing wrong with SN kids then send yours to the schools made for them.

Boy you guys know how to give private schools a good name over here. You just scared about a dozen of us back to the public school board.

[Anonymous]

If a school does take a special needs kid I sure hope that it has the means to teach them. At our small private school we are ill equiped to take care of these kids and I really think we're doing them a disservice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is saying that you don't want to pay the big bucks to have a classroom of SN kid in it a bad thing? I don't want to pay to have your kid mainstreamed. It benefits the SN kid, but what about the rest of the class?

My child is no harm to the other children and I resent your saying that he is. This isn't about "mainstreaming" and I don't know any privates that do this. There are kids at every single school -- yes, including Sidwell, the Cathedral schools, etc -- with ADHD and other developmental issues. They were accepted to these schools because they belong there. Which is all to say that you are paying the big bucks to have your children go to school with SN kids, wherever they are.

Either a school is right for your child or it isn't. You can judge that issue without insulting my child.

There is a wide range of SN children. Those that have slight problems are fine. Those that need special attention should be at their own school. If there is nothing wrong with SN kids then send yours to the schools made for them.

Nice of you to judge something you know nothing about. Go to hell.

Actually I do know lots about it. I have a close friend with a SN kid. She sends him a great private school for SN kids. He has tons of support and is flourishing. Good luck to you...you'll need it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There is a wide range of SN children. Those that have slight problems are fine. Those that need special attention should be at their own school. If there is nothing wrong with SN kids then send yours to the schools made for them.

Boy you guys know how to give private schools a good name over here. You just scared about a dozen of us back to the public school board.

Really? You have so much kindness (and wealth) that you want to PAY for your kid to go to school with SN kids. I find that ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is saying that you don't want to pay the big bucks to have a classroom of SN kid in it a bad thing? I don't want to pay to have your kid mainstreamed. It benefits the SN kid, but what about the rest of the class?

My child is no harm to the other children and I resent your saying that he is. This isn't about "mainstreaming" and I don't know any privates that do this. There are kids at every single school -- yes, including Sidwell, the Cathedral schools, etc -- with ADHD and other developmental issues. They were accepted to these schools because they belong there. Which is all to say that you are paying the big bucks to have your children go to school with SN kids, wherever they are.

Either a school is right for your child or it isn't. You can judge that issue without insulting my child.

There is a wide range of SN children. Those that have slight problems are fine. Those that need special attention should be at their own school. If there is nothing wrong with SN kids then send yours to the schools made for them.

Nice of you to judge something you know nothing about. Go to hell.

Actually I do know lots about it. I have a close friend with a SN kid. She sends him a great private school for SN kids. He has tons of support and is flourishing. Good luck to you...you'll need it.

Ah, having a friend with a SN kids tells you everything you need to know about special needs kids. As if they are all the same. As if what is right for your friend's child is right for all of them. My DC with SN is a straight A student at a "big 3" school, doesn't need any luck. Are you this nasty about your friend's child, or are you OK with it because he is in his place (as in not your child's school).

You know nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is saying that you don't want to pay the big bucks to have a classroom of SN kid in it a bad thing? I don't want to pay to have your kid mainstreamed. It benefits the SN kid, but what about the rest of the class?

My child is no harm to the other children and I resent your saying that he is. This isn't about "mainstreaming" and I don't know any privates that do this. There are kids at every single school -- yes, including Sidwell, the Cathedral schools, etc -- with ADHD and other developmental issues. They were accepted to these schools because they belong there. Which is all to say that you are paying the big bucks to have your children go to school with SN kids, wherever they are.

Either a school is right for your child or it isn't. You can judge that issue without insulting my child.

There is a wide range of SN children. Those that have slight problems are fine. Those that need special attention should be at their own school. If there is nothing wrong with SN kids then send yours to the schools made for them.

Nice of you to judge something you know nothing about. Go to hell.

Actually I do know lots about it. I have a close friend with a SN kid. She sends him a great private school for SN kids. He has tons of support and is flourishing. Good luck to you...you'll need it.

Ah, having a friend with a SN kids tells you everything you need to know about special needs kids. As if they are all the same. As if what is right for your friend's child is right for all of them. My DC with SN is a straight A student at a "big 3" school, doesn't need any luck. Are you this nasty about your friend's child, or are you OK with it because he is in his place (as in not your child's school).

You know nothing.

Do you know how to read?

Go back and read if you do: There is a wide range of SN children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Abstractly, the problem is that private schools have a sense of what they want to be, but what they can be is a function of who enrolls (among other things).

So do you search for a school whose approach to education approximates your own or do you search for a school that has the cohort you want for your kid(s)? Or split the difference?

I'd love to find a school for brainiac kids that isn't a pressure cooker. But that doesn't seem to exist in this area.

Actually, most of the best schools are great for "brainiacs". The pressure cooker only exists if the kids ( and mainly their parents) want the kids to get straight A's, do a million activities and get into Harvard or Stanford. If the families are fine with their kids getting B's instead of straight A's and going to a good college ( but not an Ivy), then the kids can get a great education and enjoy their childhoods at any of the top independent schools here. (I have been teaching in independent schools for 28 years) If you are in education, you probably know what I am talking about. If not, watch the documentary "Race to Nowhere". The pressure depicted in that film is actually being applied by parents, not schools. Give up the dream of crafting the perfect transcript and allow your kid to have fun, enjoy learning, and accept that Stanford probably won't happen. The Ivy's accept about 6% of applicants now. 2-3% of those have a "golden ticket" of some sort ( legacy, large donor, athlete, musician etc). Only the truly brilliant kids are selected form the general pool of applicants. Most people are not truly brilliant. Life will go on.

I (the PP you quoted) am in education, I'm not invested in Ivy admissions, and my brainiac is getting a great education at a local independent school. That said, it's a pressure cooker. And here I think that the parents vs. school dichotomy is a false one. Collectively, the parents/families shape school culture as much as the administration and faculty. (Which was the point I was trying to make about depends on who enrolls). Fill a "progressive" school with type-A families in a city where the private school market is highly competitive and you'll find insane workloads. Schools will blame parents, but, of course, schools decide which parental demands they accommodate and which they don't. And parents don't assign homework or create the structure that determines workloads. So it's a dynamic. And it's a collective action problem. Yeah, individual parents can put more pressure on their kids than a school does, but it's much harder for individual parents to relieve the pressure a school environment creates. Exit is your most viable option. But then the question becomes "can you find a better alternative?" I've looked and I haven't. Friends have had the same experience.

I'd love to see a school (hell, I'd love to see our school) sit down and say here's what we think is reasonable to demand of bright, energetic kids (or what we want to encourage such kids to demand of themselves in school) and here's what we're going to do to create an environment in which school doesn't provide kids with the opportunity to do much more than that. And yes I have made this argument to administrators and other parents at DC's school. Thus far, lots of lip service to change but I don't see any movement beyond guest speakers who, again, blame parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Abstractly, the problem is that private schools have a sense of what they want to be, but what they can be is a function of who enrolls (among other things).

So do you search for a school whose approach to education approximates your own or do you search for a school that has the cohort you want for your kid(s)? Or split the difference?

I'd love to find a school for brainiac kids that isn't a pressure cooker. But that doesn't seem to exist in this area.

Actually, most of the best schools are great for "brainiacs". The pressure cooker only exists if the kids ( and mainly their parents) want the kids to get straight A's, do a million activities and get into Harvard or Stanford. If the families are fine with their kids getting B's instead of straight A's and going to a good college ( but not an Ivy), then the kids can get a great education and enjoy their childhoods at any of the top independent schools here. (I have been teaching in independent schools for 28 years) If you are in education, you probably know what I am talking about. If not, watch the documentary "Race to Nowhere". The pressure depicted in that film is actually being applied by parents, not schools. Give up the dream of crafting the perfect transcript and allow your kid to have fun, enjoy learning, and accept that Stanford probably won't happen. The Ivy's accept about 6% of applicants now. 2-3% of those have a "golden ticket" of some sort ( legacy, large donor, athlete, musician etc). Only the truly brilliant kids are selected form the general pool of applicants. Most people are not truly brilliant. Life will go on.

I (the PP you quoted) am in education, I'm not invested in Ivy admissions, and my brainiac is getting a great education at a local independent school. That said, it's a pressure cooker. And here I think that the parents vs. school dichotomy is a false one. Collectively, the parents/families shape school culture as much as the administration and faculty. (Which was the point I was trying to make about depends on who enrolls). Fill a "progressive" school with type-A families in a city where the private school market is highly competitive and you'll find insane workloads. Schools will blame parents, but, of course, schools decide which parental demands they accommodate and which they don't. And parents don't assign homework or create the structure that determines workloads. So it's a dynamic. And it's a collective action problem. Yeah, individual parents can put more pressure on their kids than a school does, but it's much harder for individual parents to relieve the pressure a school environment creates. Exit is your most viable option. But then the question becomes "can you find a better alternative?" I've looked and I haven't. Friends have had the same experience.

I'd love to see a school (hell, I'd love to see our school) sit down and say here's what we think is reasonable to demand of bright, energetic kids (or what we want to encourage such kids to demand of themselves in school) and here's what we're going to do to create an environment in which school doesn't provide kids with the opportunity to do much more than that. And yes I have made this argument to administrators and other parents at DC's school. Thus far, lots of lip service to change but I don't see any movement beyond guest speakers who, again, blame parents.

Who is on the board at your school? Parents or teachers? Do you really think teachers are in a greater position of power than parents/board members ( which are mostly one and the same)?

[Anonymous]

Board is parents. Administration is (or could be -- i.e. under the previous head was) in charge on these types of issues. And that's where I see the failure of leadership.

That said, teachers do have a fair amount of control over homework and grading standards. And I've seen a handful exercise it in ways that suggest they look at this as I do. I've seen more who would agree with me in principle but who, in practice, find themselves competing for students' attention and fearing/discovering that if they are less demanding, their subject falls to the bottom of the to do list.

And, hey, I'll admit (as a teacher who is guilty of this myself) that when you've got a bright student who is doing amazing things, your pedagogical instinct is to give that student what s/he needs to take their work to the next level. Not to say, "that's great -- you're done for now. Go do something else for awhile -- preferably not schoolwork." As a parent, I can say that but (a) it would involve a level of micro-managing of my kid's schoolwork that is inappropriate (and discouraged) and (b) I lack credibility because I'm not the one setting standards/expectations and doing the evaluations. That's before we get to the question of whether I want to be in the position of urging my kids to do the minimum necessary.

This is where how you structure assignments really matters. You can create assignments that are challenging but that also have clear points at which they're done. Or you can create sky's-the-limit assignments where the only constraints are time, energy, and interest or ability. If you don't see part of your job as helping to establish a reasonable workload that leaves space for life beyond school/work, then you're more like to do the latter than the former. Especially if you're teaching in a great private school because you love your subject and love working with the kids and helping them see how far they can go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There is a wide range of SN children. Those that have slight problems are fine. Those that need special attention should be at their own school. If there is nothing wrong with SN kids then send yours to the schools made for them.

Boy you guys know how to give private schools a good name over here. You just scared about a dozen of us back to the public school board.

True that! Was just thinking how much I appreciate the way my DC is challenged in his AAP class. And it's free!

[Anonymous]

"I'd love to find a school for brainiac kids that isn't a pressure cooker. But that doesn't seem to exist in this area."

I say I want that as well, but then when looking at Ideal School in Loudoun, I jumped right to the college acceptances page. So I really want a school for gifted kids that isn't a pressure cooker, but the kids also get into some top 10 colleges. Yeah, that's not going to happen.

I agree though. My DC was at an academic camp, and the kids had such fun working together and they learned a lot. Wish school could be like that.

I also worry about the more progressive schools and ones like The Ideal School. Are they teaching the basics and then doing hands-on, or are they missing some of the basics with all the "real-world hands-on" learning.