Clueless about college

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Not for girls. The hurdle is the highest SATs and the criteria you enumerate. For boys, I'd agree.


This is interesting, esp as I have a DD. I'm doubting this, but could I ask what experience you're basing this on?
Anonymous
12:03 here again, yikes, I meant to say I'm NOT doubting this
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I'll confess: I'm completely clueless when it comes to the college process. I didn't go through anything of the sort when I went to college, and my oldest DD is currently looking at schools. I have no idea where she falls compared to her peers, in her state or nationally. I also don't know which schools she can realistically get into and attend (I am not very familiar with US schools.) She goes to an all girls private high school and has all A's so far in hs with one B+. Her SAT score is a 2230: 680 math, 750 critical reading and 800 writing. She is a very smart girl who has always had a strong interest in the sciences. She's not a super genius, but she has an extreme love of learning and a curiosity about the world that I think is unusual in a teenage girl (her peers, although also very bright, seem more concerned with "mixers" and television than planetary science and current events). Can someone tell me a realistic goal for colleges? Public or private, how expensive, does she need to test again, etc?
This is just for me-I am letting her choose the school ultimately (as long as it is financially viable) but I want some basic information that all the other parents seem to already know.


Off the top of my head, for a girl with those stats:

At the top end (top 25), I'd look at Northwestern University, University of Virginia, Vanderbilt, Cornell, Brown and Washington University in St. Louis. Those might be a reach.

I know a young lady with similar stats who is going to University of Michigan in the fall. I'd also look at University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill, Boston College, University of Illinois, University of Connecticut, University of Florida and University of Texas - Austin. She can probably get into those.

If she wants a smaller liberal arts experience, specifically, I'd look at Grinnell College, Oberlin College, Colorado College, Macalester College, Bryn Mawr College, or Trinity College. New College of Florida is a hidden gem.

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Off the top of my head, for a girl with those stats:

At the top end (top 25), I'd look at Northwestern University, University of Virginia, Vanderbilt, Cornell, Brown and Washington University in St. Louis. Those might be a reach.

I know a young lady with similar stats who is going to University of Michigan in the fall. I'd also look at University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill, Boston College, University of Illinois, University of Connecticut, University of Florida and University of Texas - Austin. She can probably get into those.

If she wants a smaller liberal arts experience, specifically, I'd look at Grinnell College, Oberlin College, Colorado College, Macalester College, Bryn Mawr College, or Trinity College. New College of Florida is a hidden gem.



If I had a daughter with those stats, there's nowhere that I'd discourage her from applying to, but I'd include some safeties as well, simply because admissions at the top schools can be a crap shoot.
Anonymous
I think the strategy of applying to a few each of reach, target and safety schools serves many kids well. As they say, reach for the stars, but love your safeties....

The nut we can't crack is where to apply early decision - a reach or a target....
Anonymous
No one talks about "safeties" anymore because there is no such thing any longer. They are called "likelies" ... likely but not necessarily "a given".
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Your daughter's scores put her in the running for the more competitive LAC's/universities but probably not the most competitive.


I don't think this is an accurate statement without knowing more about the student. What is her class rank? Even if the school does not rank students, you can get a sense of where she stands from the guidance counselor. Also, what do her extra-curriculars look like? The sense I've gotten is that the SATs are more of a hurdle that need to be cleared, and once you have 2250 or so you're good to go and the schools focus on other things such as ECs, essays, etc. However, getting into the most competitive schools is a total crapshoot. "Being in the running" is just that. Your application won't be thrown out on the basis of SATs or grades; your application is then put into the still-enormous pile of eligible candidates.


This is my sense as well. SATs scores of 2250 is a threshold to be cleared, then it comes down to your essay, passion, extracurriculars, and leadership. If you go on Naviance, even the very top schools (HYP) will have turned down kids from your school (you can only see your school) with perfect SATs, and the average of accepted SATs from your school may be more like 2200 or 2300.


A 680 in Math is NOT competitive at the top schools.
Anonymous
I don't think your single-minded focus on the SAT scores is accurate. There is no absolute cut-off and once a student hits 2200 or so, other factors become more significant. Additionally, can't she retake the SATs and superscore? What if she has absolutely no interest in math but has achieved national recognition in writing (i.e., national medal in the Scholastic Writing contest or something)? What if she is ranked #1 at NCS? You still think her 680 in math will keep her out of the top schools? I doubt it.
Anonymous
How many students have achieved national recognition in writing? Many schools do not count the writing score -- only the critical reading and math only. Naviance should show the score out of 1600 as well as the score out of 2400 for each of the universities.
Anonymous
A 680 isn't fatal, even for Harvard. Harvard's average Math SAT is around 740 and it has its share of 800M scores on the other end. What is more important, is that to be competitive at the top schools, she better be taking the most challenging classes at her high school.

Let your daughter take the lead on the college search. It really is a process, almost like a rite of passage. Maybe she will be "brand" obsessed like most DCUMs, but chances are she will consider a range of factors. I'll bet she makes good decisions and will end up at the right school.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I think the strategy of applying to a few each of reach, target and safety schools serves many kids well. As they say, reach for the stars, but love your safeties....

The nut we can't crack is where to apply early decision - a reach or a target....


The early decision game has changed a lot. There is early decision, early action, and restricted choice early action. You are not limited strictly to one, except in traditional early action. These get confusing so read up on them, but you will be able to apply to more than one. Now getting the app in on time, that's a whole nother challenge.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:No one talks about "safeties" anymore because there is no such thing any longer. They are called "likelies" ... likely but not necessarily "a given".


All the school counselors and parents we've dealt with talk about safeties, and we're going through the process now. There are some schools out there that accept almost every applicant. Your kid should apply to a few of this type of school, or at least to schools where your kid's scores/GPA blow the school average out of the water. If your kid doesn't do this, and instead applies only to schools that are merely "likelies" given your kid's scores/GPA -- then this is a big mistake.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think the strategy of applying to a few each of reach, target and safety schools serves many kids well. As they say, reach for the stars, but love your safeties....

The nut we can't crack is where to apply early decision - a reach or a target....


The early decision game has changed a lot. There is early decision, early action, and restricted choice early action. You are not limited strictly to one, except in traditional early action. These get confusing so read up on them, but you will be able to apply to more than one. Now getting the app in on time, that's a whole nother challenge.


This is what I should have said -- what is the one school that DC should apply to "traditional early action". Suppose Brown takes 30% of early action kids and 9% of regular pool kids (I'm making these numbers up, obviously, but many schools take a higher percentage of early action than regular pool). So should DC apply to Brown if DC has the school's average accepted GPA/scores and some good extras, and risk getting deferred? Or should DC use that early action leverage to secure a spot at some decent 2nd tier school?

I'm not expecting you to tell us the answer, because obviously it varies from kid to kid. I'm just laying out our own confusion here....
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:A 680 isn't fatal, even for Harvard. Harvard's average Math SAT is around 740 and it has its share of 800M scores on the other end. What is more important, is that to be competitive at the top schools, she better be taking the most challenging classes at her high school.

Let your daughter take the lead on the college search. It really is a process, almost like a rite of passage. Maybe she will be "brand" obsessed like most DCUMs, but chances are she will consider a range of factors. I'll bet she makes good decisions and will end up at the right school.


And just who do you think with a 680 is at Harvard? It's a recruited athlete, a legacy, a URM or someone with an extraordinary talent - an Olympic hopeful, a Westinghouse Science award winner, etc. That's not to say that there aren't a ton of great colleges in the US. And you're right there is an obsession with the top 10. Just know who is getting into the top 10. It's not the well-rounded nice kid with above average SAT's, grades, class rankings and solid extra-curriculars. It's the kid with perfect SAT scores, first in class or maybe second, with an extraordinary talent unless he/she has a "hook" as mentioned above. Don't kid yourself.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:How many students have achieved national recognition in writing? Many schools do not count the writing score -- only the critical reading and math only. Naviance should show the score out of 1600 as well as the score out of 2400 for each of the universities.


Naviance is of extremely limited value. It does not report based on gender. It does not report based on recruited athletes. It provides a highly imperfect and skewed view of who is getting in where. Use the Common Data Set that each college/university provides in their website on the institutional research page.
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