Harvard has more black students than ever, but are they African-American?

[Anonymous]

I'm an American-born black (a descendent). Twenty years ago when I was an undergrad, the Africans who I attended college with didn't acknowledge the existence of racism. I guess, we are now in a new decade of enlightenment? Headache from thudding into the glass ceiling and looking for excuses?

I've observed that Africans when dealing with whites, in public, will verbally state that they are NOT black American. However, on paper they check off that AA box when they believe it will give them a leg up. So what that their surname or place of birth is clearly foreign. They're just playing the we're not "them" game, lol.

It's really quite simple, white-racists deem Africans/Caribs easier to psychologically deal with than AAs/black Americans. They're perceived to lack any historical, American slave baggage. They are viewed as hard working, accommodating, and highly moral with family values.

[Anonymous]

The most socially and economically disadvantaged Africans rarely reach American shores. We get the creme de la creme. No useful comparison is possible.

[Anonymous]

Really? Have you been to new York? Tons of poor Africans that came here as stowaways and wanna work hard. Driving taxis working in old folks homes cleaning bed pans or on the streets selling stuff. All looking for a better life. Africans don't expect that it just be handed to them. They're not lazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Really? Have you been to new York? Tons of poor Africans that came here as stowaways and wanna work hard. Driving taxis working in old folks homes cleaning bed pans or on the streets selling stuff. All looking for a better life. Africans don't expect that it just be handed to them. They're not lazy.

Yikes. This is my first post on this thread. I want to make it really clear that I've been posting on the Harvard thread, and I think I've been exchanging posts with one of you on the MoCo thread, and this is NOT me!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:isnt it a good thing that african immigrants are achieving? isnt that proof that racism is not an obstacle to success?

No.

No. Upper class Africans have not been subjected to the instutuionalized racism in America that creates the need for affirmative action.

lol, so once a black person immigrates to the US, are they not subject to the same form of RACISM that is an obstacle to success or not? they are the same race, so they would presumably face the same racism when applying for a job, looking for housing, or attending schools.

No, asshole, they are not subjected to the same form of racism and are well aware that they are not. Africans are free to process American slavery objectively. Actually, they're perceived as harmless, easier to deal with, and far less prone to retaliation, unless, of course, they're Somalians.

They are not subject to racism, because they are Africans? According to this http://www.epi.org/page/-/BriefingPaper298.pdf?nocdn=1[/url, even though African immigrants group is the most educated immigrant group, , they still rank last in terms of income, earning 34.7% less than the white man. Stop spouting your racist non-sense.

"Contrary to the popular stereotype, black immigrants are not consistently better off than U.S.-born blacks. In educational attainment and weekly wages, U.S.-born blacks fall within the range of black immigrant groups. U.S.-born blacks are worse off in marriage rates, unemployment rates, and poverty rates. However, foreign-born blacks cannot be said to be doing well, even if they are not quite as bad off as U.S.-born blacks. Economically, U.S.-born and foreign-born blacks have common problems that need to be addressed.
The fact that black immigrant groups—who are said to be hardworking, valuing education, entrepreneurial, and family-oriented—do relatively poorly in finding work, obtaining a good wage, and staying out of poverty suggests that the playing field is not as level as popularly believed. The fact that all of these groups are black may contribute to their hardships in the United States."

[Anonymous]

They are not from generation upon generation of broken families because slaves were sold like property. The lack of strong family ties and positive cultural outlook goes to the heart of some of the worst problems with AAs and achievement.

So where's the cutoff for where's it's appropriate to take advantage of affirmative action? Do I have to trace my ancestors back to slavery? What if my ancestors came to the US around 1900? 1950? What if my parents cane in 1980, and I was born here?

Affirmative action is based on race, not nationality. So to 23:37, there are no slots set aside for African Americans. If you can't compete with with African-born blacks, work harder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

They are not from generation upon generation of broken families because slaves were sold like property. The lack of strong family ties and positive cultural outlook goes to the heart of some of the worst problems with AAs and achievement.

So where's the cutoff for where's it's appropriate to take advantage of affirmative action? Do I have to trace my ancestors back to slavery? What if my ancestors came to the US around 1900? 1950? What if my parents cane in 1980, and I was born here?

Affirmative action is based on race, not nationality. So to 23:37, there are no slots set aside for African Americans. If you can't compete with with African-born blacks, work harder.

LOL, compete with Africans? Such arrogance. Why didn't you and your family stay in your country and work harder there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Really? Have you been to new York? Tons of poor Africans that came here as stowaways and wanna work hard. Driving taxis working in old folks homes cleaning bed pans or on the streets selling stuff. All looking for a better life. Africans don't expect that it just be handed to them. They're not lazy.

I have worked at consular sections in our embassies. I maintain that generally the poorest of the poor from any continent do not usually make it to the U.S. The doctor's son from Nigeria may be quite willing to drive a taxi in New York. But thank you for reminding me that Africans don't expect that success just be handed to them. My parents grew up in very poor states, the children of sharecroppers and woodcutters, literally being spat upon by white kids riding by in their school buses. They worked their way through college and and were each the first in their families to earn graduate degrees. DH and I worked our way through college and paid for our wedding, house, and car by ourselves. I have met people who literally did not believe that I am a real African American -- not of direct West Indian or African descent. I've spent plenty of time around immigrant blacks who assume that only they properly prioritize family and education. I guess my family and I should try to learn from them to become less lazy and have a shot at the American dream.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Really? Have you been to new York? Tons of poor Africans that came here as stowaways and wanna work hard. Driving taxis working in old folks homes cleaning bed pans or on the streets selling stuff. All looking for a better life. Africans don't expect that it just be handed to them. They're not lazy.

I have worked at consular sections in our embassies. I maintain that generally the poorest of the poor from any continent do not usually make it to the U.S. The doctor's son from Nigeria may be quite willing to drive a taxi in New York. But thank you for reminding me that Africans don't expect that success just be handed to them. My parents grew up in very poor states, the children of sharecroppers and woodcutters, literally being spat upon by white kids riding by in their school buses. They worked their way through college and and were each the first in their families to earn graduate degrees. DH and I worked our way through college and paid for our wedding, house, and car by ourselves. I have met people who literally did not believe that I am a real African American -- not of direct West Indian or African descent. I've spent plenty of time around immigrant blacks who assume that only they properly prioritize family and education. I guess my family and I should try to learn from them to become less lazy and have a shot at the American dream.

We must be related. I can't tell you how many times someone assumes that my family is West Indian. Because such successful blacks could not possibly be homegrown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Really? Have you been to new York? Tons of poor Africans that came here as stowaways and wanna work hard. Driving taxis working in old folks homes cleaning bed pans or on the streets selling stuff. All looking for a better life. Africans don't expect that it just be handed to them. They're not lazy.

I have worked at consular sections in our embassies. I maintain that generally the poorest of the poor from any continent do not usually make it to the U.S. The doctor's son from Nigeria may be quite willing to drive a taxi in New York. But thank you for reminding me that Africans don't expect that success just be handed to them. My parents grew up in very poor states, the children of sharecroppers and woodcutters, literally being spat upon by white kids riding by in their school buses. They worked their way through college and and were each the first in their families to earn graduate degrees. DH and I worked our way through college and paid for our wedding, house, and car by ourselves. I have met people who literally did not believe that I am a real African American -- not of direct West Indian or African descent. I've spent plenty of time around immigrant blacks who assume that only they properly prioritize family and education. I guess my family and I should try to learn from them to become less lazy and have a shot at the American dream.

As an African I maintain that you are wrong. The doctor's son from Nigeria is studying medicine at UKansas or UT. The wealthier ones are at Ivy league schools or other top public/privates. The guy driving the taxi is a guy from Lagos or Accra. who got here with a letter from his cousin saying he was just coming for the summer and he was going to go back and he knew he planned to overstay. These people all have one goal. A better life and they see America as the land of opportunity. They are great for our economy because they come here and provide high productivity and lots of economic benefit per worker. Indirectly (they're illegal) their economic benefit pays into our system that benefits Black Americans that live off the government. They identify with White Americans because they seek to move up by working hard not by government programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
LOL, compete with Africans? Such arrogance. Why didn't you and your family stay in ygoour country and work harder there? [/quote

Good question. Maybe the red man wanted to ask you that too

[Anonymous]

An african on a student visa does not take away a spot from a citizen aa on an aa-only scholarship. Most scolarships are for citizens only.
Very little for foreigners without money.

[Anonymous]

Yes, you are right. As I outlined above, my parents achieved the American dream through reliance on government handouts and instilled the same laziness in me. I have issued and denied thousands of visas and I still maintain that the poorest of the poor cannot get a visa (excluding the Diversity Visa) with a letter from Cousin Emeka or a ream of bank account statements. I support paths to legalization for the law-abiding and especially their children but that does blind me to the basic truth that immigrants who cannot cross on foot at our borders do not, by and large, proportionally represent their countries. You identify yourself as African and thus know better than most how impossibly far out of reach even a plane ticket would be for a truly impoverished person in a certain context. Why pretend that this opportunity is equally available to people from every economic background when you know that is not the case?

As a Black American please allow me to extend my thanks to those hardworking Africans who indirectly, and so nobly, choose to subsidize those of us who "live off the government" through their black market labor that does not drive down wages, but merely 'right prices' them in our economy. I congratulate them on their certain-to-be-fruitful strategy of identifying with White Americans. We hapless native sons and daughters can indeed learn much from them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you are right. As I outlined above, my parents achieved the American dream through reliance on government handouts and instilled the same laziness in me. I have issued and denied thousands of visas and I still maintain that the poorest of the poor cannot get a visa (excluding the Diversity Visa) with a letter from Cousin Emeka or a ream of bank account statements. I support paths to legalization for the law-abiding and especially their children but that does blind me to the basic truth that immigrants who cannot cross on foot at our borders do not, by and large, proportionally represent their countries. You identify yourself as African and thus know better than most how impossibly far out of reach even a plane ticket would be for a truly impoverished person in a certain context. Why pretend that this opportunity is equally available to people from every economic background when you know that is not the case?

As a Black American please allow me to extend my thanks to those hardworking Africans who indirectly, and so nobly, choose to subsidize those of us who "live off the government" through their black market labor that does not drive down wages, but merely 'right prices' them in our economy. I congratulate them on their certain-to-be-fruitful strategy of identifying with White Americans. We hapless native sons and daughters can indeed learn much from them.

Why do you have such a boulder on your shoulder?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The most socially and economically disadvantaged Africans rarely reach American shores. We get the creme de la creme. No useful comparison is possible.

I agree. If you can afford a plane ticket valued over $2000 to reach America,there is no way you are poor. The poor, disadvantaged Africans remain in Africa. They too are subjected to discrimination. Except, the discrimination is coming from other Africans. I have been to Ethiopia, South Africa, and Gambia. They too have a caste system. Disgusting.