The GTA president's proposal for school integration--what do you think?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am on the several of these lists. I don't have time to go back and look at the original post and the discussion thread. But, in general, what I remember is that this "proposal" isn't really a serious one, or rather it was made knowing that it was politically impossible.

I think it is a reflection of the frustration that the GTA guy (and many parents) feel trying to get appropriate higher level instruction for their kids. In the red zone (where this guy lives), the schools generally provide fewer acceleration options. It would take an entirely different looong thread to lay out possible reasons why (higher poverty rates, less ability of parents to advocate, racism, lower rates of entry preparedness, etc.) The school system approach to ensuring "equity" in these schools seems to be to fail to provide acceleration/challenge so that the differences between the least prepared and most prepared are less obvious.

This problem doesn't present itself as clearly in green zone schools because by and large the kids come to school already at higher levels of academic performance (again another thread to discuss why -- wealth, opportunity, outside tutoring, parents who push/advocate, etc.). So, green zone kids get a higher base level of teaching so that even when their parents fail in efforts to get acceleration/challenge, the base level is not as low as in a red zone school.

The article that was posted and the suggestion to integrate schools comes out of these frustrations and a recent study that shows that low income kids who gain entry to high income public schools are able to perform better (again another thread to discuss why -- better teaching, more prepared peers, etc.) So, maybe the true answer to "equity in schools", i.e. performance outcomes where low income and minority kids can perform as well as wealthy white kids, is to simply integrate our schools. (It's another question how "doable" this is.)

I write this as a parent who has had kids in both green zone and red zone schools, and have been in DCPS and MoCo schools. I have been appalled in both districts about the poor teaching and low expectations set in schools that have mostly low income minority kids. As a citizen it's sad to see and corrosive to our democracy that low income minority kids get such a different and lower quality education than their wealthy peers in public school.

I also say this as a parent who grew up in MoCo, went to a school that was mostly white and was integrated in the late 70s/early 80s. I am a strong supporter of integrated schools and have been dismayed to see MCPS make some moves that I think undermine school integration. Of course, I don't support long distance forced busing to rectify entrenched segregated housing patterns, which is what would have to happen to totally integrate our county due to the very segregated housing patterns (which is also another long thread about why our segregated housing patterns arose -- racially exclusive property covenants, VA and FHA mortgage loan history, mortgage redlining, etc.) But, where it is possible to integrate schools w/ shorter bus rides (under 1/2 hour) or to situate magnet programs or choice programs to increase diversity, I support such programs.

Appreciate your trying to defend the "GTA guy." I am on all those lists and have seen this proposal being pushed very, very hard many times.

It looks like you want to push for a socialistic society and are using the school system to do so. The "GTA guy" on the one side wants to integrate society and on the other he wants to segregate classrooms by advocating separate classes for wealthy, well-prepared. Sounds like a liberal!!! This is America, and we have to understand the people can chose to live where they want. Move to Cuba if you want a society where all housing costs the same.

+100. The GTA guy wants segregation where it suits him and desegregation where it benefits him. People work hard, save, and buy houses where they are comfortable. Why is that wrong? You think anyone can afford to live in Manhattan? Housing is what it is and having a diverse school population is okay with me. However, the GTA guy's proposals (I've seen many of his proposal on various email lists) is purely boneheaded. It is politically unfeasible, economically impossible, and will undermine the tax base that feeds the MCPS monster. I don't support the GTA because of GTA guy's constant rants.

[Anonymous]

Socialism? Cuba? You need to go back to school yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just read my emails from yesterday and saw the president of the GTAMC asking parents to email Superintendent Starr and the BOE and ask them to "change assignment policy to maximize integration by race, ethnicity and class." One way to do that would be to get math acceleration and global screening (is that what they call the 2nd grade testing?) and GT all together.

Should we support his efforts?

OP-No! It looks like an idea floated by someone wanting votes from the red zone. Is the person trying to run for BOE or County Council?

[Anonymous]

Having 2 kids in green zoom school and an immigrant from sociolism china. I think the integrated class drains more energy from teacher (a teach has to prepare teaching materials for kids in 7 different levels) and no one, doesn't matter if you are advanced or below the level. My son knows the 's, one in the class. My extreme experimental model is to switch the students between a red and green school but not school building and teachers. My prediction is that the students will change their perfomance. Integration itself will not change students' achivement. You need god teacher who are trained to focus on the special student group to bring the best of them. Integration just burns the teacher with too much work therefore reduces their productivity.

[Anonymous]

I just read my emails from yesterday and saw the president of the GTAMC asking parents to email Superintendent Starr and the BOE and ask them to "change assignment policy to maximize integration by race, ethnicity and class." One way to do that would be to get math acceleration and global screening (is that what they call the 2nd grade testing?) and GT all together.

Should we support his efforts?

Isn't this what Starr is already doing by eliminating math pathways? Of course, these idiots equate this fine policy with social justice and then the real education in MCPS is achieved by neighborhood apartheid (silos). Does Starr and his cronies think we are all fools. How on earth does a policy of eliminating math subject acceleration in MCPS schools achieve social justice when public school education in MCPS (at least in my neighborhood) is dominated by social, ethnic and racial apartheid. This policy, as some posters assert, is simply a means of the "closing" the embarassing performance gap between the high performing children of recent immigrants and the establishment (leadership).

[Anonymous]

Appreciate your trying to defend the "GTA guy." I am on all those lists and have seen this proposal being pushed very, very hard many times.

It looks like you want to push for a socialistic society and are using the school system to do so. The "GTA guy" on the one side wants to integrate society and on the other he wants to segregate classrooms by advocating separate classes for wealthy, well-prepared. Sounds like a liberal!!! This is America, and we have to understand the people can chose to live where they want. Move to Cuba if you want a society where all housing costs the same.

Are you directing your comments to Mr Starr re: social justice? If so, very appropriate since their public school systems are not funded in the manner we in America fund them. If MCPS wants social justice they should move to Cuba or change the way public schools are funded in America. Then you can return to your neighborhood silos.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This proposal would be political suicide for Starr, though those of us on the east side of the county would find it highly satisfying to see those on the west side watch their 200K housing premiums disappear overnight if their houses were no longer exclusively assigned to the super special schools. I have always found it distasteful for people to pay a lot more money just to live in a neighborhood with largely white schools, and then declare that they deserve better quality schools because they paid more for their houses.

+1

Love this

[Anonymous]

It is not the schools and teachers! The outcome the the school is determined by the parents' education level and that they want their kids to learn. Has anyone think about the other "gap". AA lags behind Hispanic on both math and English! Sorry to be political incorrect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is not the schools and teachers! The outcome the the school is determined by the parents' education level and that they want their kids to learn. Has anyone think about the other "gap". AA lags behind Hispanic on both math and English! Sorry to be political incorrect.

+1
You are right. The fact that the schools that seems "best" are located in the neighborhoods with better educated parents makes the point. Almost forgot, the parents in the schools that appear good can afford good supports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not the schools and teachers! The outcome the the school is determined by the parents' education level and that they want their kids to learn. Has anyone think about the other "gap". AA lags behind Hispanic on both math and English! Sorry to be political incorrect.

+1
You are right. The fact that the schools that seems "best" are located in the neighborhoods with better educated parents makes the point. Almost forgot, the parents in the schools that appear good can afford good supports.

I remember I read something in the Colesville Patch about the GTA guy complaining about not having enough white kinds at Springbrook HS or Kennedy HS. Can anyone find the links?