Charter School application vs space

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem with the commodities exchange would be that it would encourage families to apply for school sthat they would not consider under any circumstances fro their child. For instance, last year I was applying to schools for my twins. Due to our commutes and having three kids (oldest already set at a great OOB DCPS school), we were only looking on the Hill. The only non-Hill schools we applied for were 2Rs and the Appletree school in SW (close to Hill). But, if there were a commodities thing, we would have applied everywhere for a better chance of the 2Rs spot (or even better our top choice DCPS slot if DCPS were involved). This would make the waitlists even longer and crazier. I know you are kind of joking, but I think your idea has some merrit so I'm making a counterargument.

I hear you PP, and I know the idea if rife with all sorts of problems and I honestly don't see it going anywhere. I would suspect that what your family chose to do was the exception instead of the rule--it sure would be nice to see the data and be able to really see how DC families are using the lotteries...are they applying to tons or just a few, etc? My sense is that families typically cast the net wide, simply out of the panic that these lotteries with their huge waitlists create ("Well, if we don't get in where we want maybe we'll get in somewhere decent, even if it's two quadrants away...we'll deal with that when and if it happens"). And beyond the logistics issue, there are other examples. For instance, we applied to YY even though I was not at all excited about the prospect of Chinese immersion...but I felt like I had to because it's a good school and could possibly provide an option if we had no other. So I can definitely envision the outcome example you offer of casting a wide net just so you'll have more chits to play with. I just feel like there must be a better way to help families get into the charters that are truly best for them (whether it's based on curriculum, logistics, specials, immersion, etc.).

[Anonymous]

I know LAMB had 633 applicants for PS and PK spots but not sure how many actual spots were available in each age group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry for the typos (iphone)
Thanks! I thought so too. Come on. I acknowledge that the existence of crazy waitlists would not allow this to occur. So pipe down. My point is we have created a system where families take spots at schools they aren't really thrilled about and we end up with families driving all over the city every morning commuting to these schools they weren't all that thrilled out. My child is at a great school that we're happy with but we drive 25 minutes each morning to get there, while EL Haynes is two blocks away. If I had the option to trade my spot to get one at EL Haynes I would have considered it for sure. And by the way, education IS a commodity.

So the parent who's # 1 on the waitlist who happens to not have gotten in anywhere, or is a new resident, or doesn't have any friends, or whatever, doesn't get the spot that someone else is going to turn down, because you happen to know that person, or meet him on Craig's List, or even pay to trade spots (and if you don't think this will happen, you're nuts)? Sorry, that's a horrible idea. With respect to education being a commodity, it is certainly something that is valued in the community (re a "hot commodity). But access to public education has not been somethign that private citizens have been able to trade and use to profit themselves.

This "idea" is a classic "It would have helped me, so it's great" rather than "this will lead to a benefit for the system."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry for the typos (iphone)
Thanks! I thought so too. Come on. I acknowledge that the existence of crazy waitlists would not allow this to occur. So pipe down. My point is we have created a system where families take spots at schools they aren't really thrilled about and we end up with families driving all over the city every morning commuting to these schools they weren't all that thrilled out. My child is at a great school that we're happy with but we drive 25 minutes each morning to get there, while EL Haynes is two blocks away. If I had the option to trade my spot to get one at EL Haynes I would have considered it for sure. And by the way, education IS a commodity.

So the parent who's # 1 on the waitlist who happens to not have gotten in anywhere, or is a new resident, or doesn't have any friends, or whatever, doesn't get the spot that someone else is going to turn down, because you happen to know that person, or meet him on Craig's List, or even pay to trade spots (and if you don't think this will happen, you're nuts)? Sorry, that's a horrible idea. With respect to education being a commodity, it is certainly something that is valued in the community (re a "hot commodity). But access to public education has not been somethign that private citizens have been able to trade and use to profit themselves.

This "idea" is a classic "It would have helped me, so it's great" rather than "this will lead to a benefit for the system."

Hey bozo, it's a brainstorming idea, which again, I've acknowledged time and again is problematic. So put your talons away. But legitimate problems do exist with the current system where families end up where they don't want to be, or end up paying for private that they can't really afford because they didn't get the waitlist call until September, or maybe that waitlist call never came. And by the way, this nugget of an idea would not involve "friends" or Craigslist. I specifically said "official, time-limited" meaning it would need to be something run by, say the Charter Board or some other entity--not handing over some gold coin to your friend at a cocktail party. Again, allow me bow and beg your pardon for this God-awful idea. Now it's your turn...come up with something better that will help families get to where they want and need to be without daunting waitlists that are 600 people deep.

[Anonymous]

Having hung out on this forum and entered several charter lotteries for DS (soon to be 3!)), I'd say 600-700 competing families for PS3 / PK4 seems is a little low, but getting close. I'd say the number is closer to 800-900.

Our tots are sitting on a demographic bubble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Having hung out on this forum and entered several charter lotteries for DS (soon to be 3!)), I'd say 600-700 competing families for PS3 / PK4 seems is a little low, but getting close. I'd say the number is closer to 800-900.

Our tots are sitting on a demographic bubble.

I posted 600-700 because I didn't count the families west of the park that only consider JKLMM schools, which I estimate to be about 200-300 families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem with the commodities exchange would be that it would encourage families to apply for school sthat they would not consider under any circumstances fro their child. For instance, last year I was applying to schools for my twins. Due to our commutes and having three kids (oldest already set at a great OOB DCPS school), we were only looking on the Hill. The only non-Hill schools we applied for were 2Rs and the Appletree school in SW (close to Hill). But, if there were a commodities thing, we would have applied everywhere for a better chance of the 2Rs spot (or even better our top choice DCPS slot if DCPS were involved). This would make the waitlists even longer and crazier. I know you are kind of joking, but I think your idea has some merrit so I'm making a counterargument.

The counter-argument to this argument is that it is already happening - you kept a sane perspective on what you could realistically do, but it seems many other parents don't. you panic, worrying you won't get in anyplace, and so therefore over apply everyplace.

I'd love to see a real study done on how charters are playing out in terms of enrollment from a community perspective.

I think I'd ultimately like to see (someday - once locations are more semi-permanent) some sort of locality preference for charter schools. No idea of how it would work, but if there were enough spaces for everyone, it sure would be nice to think some of this insanity would go away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with the commodities exchange would be that it would encourage families to apply for school sthat they would not consider under any circumstances fro their child. For instance, last year I was applying to schools for my twins. Due to our commutes and having three kids (oldest already set at a great OOB DCPS school), we were only looking on the Hill. The only non-Hill schools we applied for were 2Rs and the Appletree school in SW (close to Hill). But, if there were a commodities thing, we would have applied everywhere for a better chance of the 2Rs spot (or even better our top choice DCPS slot if DCPS were involved). This would make the waitlists even longer and crazier. I know you are kind of joking, but I think your idea has some merrit so I'm making a counterargument.

The counter-argument to this argument is that it is already happening - you kept a sane perspective on what you could realistically do, but it seems many other parents don't. you panic, worrying you won't get in anyplace, and so therefore over apply everyplace.

I'd love to see a real study done on how charters are playing out in terms of enrollment from a community perspective.

I think I'd ultimately like to see (someday - once locations are more semi-permanent) some sort of locality preference for charter schools. No idea of how it would work, but if there were enough spaces for everyone, it sure would be nice to think some of this insanity would go away.

If you only consider charter schools, there are not enough PS spaces at the most talked about schools (to date) on DCUM- at the most 400 spaces, because as a PP mentioned, some schools such as Stokes and 2 Rivers have no or very few spaces because of siblings and other schools have smaller class sizes in the early years. However, when you count the most talked about EOP DCPS PS3 programs, most families find a space. By PK4 and the availability of WOP spaces, there are enough spaces for everyone, the lottery is just a big musical chairs game. The problem is people don't get into their top choices or have to commute across town.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with the commodities exchange would be that it would encourage families to apply for school sthat they would not consider under any circumstances fro their child. For instance, last year I was applying to schools for my twins. Due to our commutes and having three kids (oldest already set at a great OOB DCPS school), we were only looking on the Hill. The only non-Hill schools we applied for were 2Rs and the Appletree school in SW (close to Hill). But, if there were a commodities thing, we would have applied everywhere for a better chance of the 2Rs spot (or even better our top choice DCPS slot if DCPS were involved). This would make the waitlists even longer and crazier. I know you are kind of joking, but I think your idea has some merrit so I'm making a counterargument.

The counter-argument to this argument is that it is already happening - you kept a sane perspective on what you could realistically do, but it seems many other parents don't. you panic, worrying you won't get in anyplace, and so therefore over apply everyplace.

I'd love to see a real study done on how charters are playing out in terms of enrollment from a community perspective.

I think I'd ultimately like to see (someday - once locations are more semi-permanent) some sort of locality preference for charter schools. No idea of how it would work, but if there were enough spaces for everyone, it sure would be nice to think some of this insanity would go away.

If you only consider charter schools, there are not enough PS spaces at the most talked about schools (to date) on DCUM- at the most 400 spaces, because as a PP mentioned, some schools such as Stokes and 2 Rivers have no or very few spaces because of siblings and other schools have smaller class sizes in the early years. However, when you count the most talked about EOP DCPS PS3 programs, most families find a space. By PK4 and the availability of WOP spaces, there are enough spaces for everyone, the lottery is just a big musical chairs game. The problem is people don't get into their top choices or have to commute across town.

Or many accept a spot at a charter that isn't their first choice, because at least it's a foot in the door SOMEWHERE - and then they play the lotteries all over again the next year hoping for something that better suits them (or their child).

[Anonymous]

Quote: Or many accept a spot at a charter that isn't their first choice, because at least it's a foot in the door SOMEWHERE - and then they play the lotteries all over again the next year hoping for something that better suits them (or their child).

Excellent point...this is the PP who floated the "exchange" idea. Jumping from school to school is another outcome of the current structure resulting in less cohesiveness of the school community. Just because a child got a spot at a decent school one year doesn't mean that family won't jump ship the next year, trying again and again for the schools that are higher on their priority list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Quote: Or many accept a spot at a charter that isn't their first choice, because at least it's a foot in the door SOMEWHERE - and then they play the lotteries all over again the next year hoping for something that better suits them (or their child).

Excellent point...this is the PP who floated the "exchange" idea. Jumping from school to school is another outcome of the current structure resulting in less cohesiveness of the school community. Just because a child got a spot at a decent school one year doesn't mean that family won't jump ship the next year, trying again and again for the schools that are higher on their priority list.

Okay, I'll play along. What if the charters had a centralized lottery, a la DCPS? So, you rank the schools you are interested in, in order of preference. But - and this is important - you'd have to limit the number of schools people could apply to. Otherwise, people would have an incentive to apply for everything, even schools they don't care about. So, you'd have a limit so that the preferences actually mean something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quote: Or many accept a spot at a charter that isn't their first choice, because at least it's a foot in the door SOMEWHERE - and then they play the lotteries all over again the next year hoping for something that better suits them (or their child).

Excellent point...this is the PP who floated the "exchange" idea. Jumping from school to school is another outcome of the current structure resulting in less cohesiveness of the school community. Just because a child got a spot at a decent school one year doesn't mean that family won't jump ship the next year, trying again and again for the schools that are higher on their priority list.

Okay, I'll play along. What if the charters had a centralized lottery, a la DCPS? So, you rank the schools you are interested in, in order of preference. But - and this is important - you'd have to limit the number of schools people could apply to. Otherwise, people would have an incentive to apply for everything, even schools they don't care about. So, you'd have a limit so that the preferences actually mean something.

I think that's exactly what will happen within the next few years. Demand is only getting stronger for these schools.

[Anonymous]

Yes, the exchange isn't the way to go -- the centralized lottery is. So they all have a lottery (if applications warrant) on the same day so this isn't spread out over a month. And so people can't hold more than one spot. Ranked preferences just like DCPS so I can prioritize my top school and you can prioritize yours -- best if nobody gets into more than one (just like DCPS lottery).