Becoming vegetarian - how to raise baby - looking for advice/support

[Anonymous]

PP here. I won't pay for it, either. Forgot to mention that.

[Anonymous]

PP here again. Re: the NYT article, please replace the word "vegan" with "nuts" in your mind while reading. These folks were not informed vegans, of which there are many. They were people who starved a baby. Painting veganism with this brush is wholey unfair and inflamatory.

[Anonymous]

Thanks PP! This is the OP here. Would you or any of the other vegetarian moms be interested in getting together somewhere for a coffee? Maybe we could somewhere on the red line? I would love to discuss this more, learn more, and meet some mommies going the same direction as me....

thanks!

[Anonymous]

DH and I are vegetarian and our DS is about 14 months, so he isn't old enough to question what we feed him. DH and I have always said that we'd let DS decide when he's old enough about eating meat. but, like other PPs, we have no idea when that will be. I know that within a few years, he'll have friends who love mcdonald's. I guess the only thing we can do is explain the reasons why we don't eat meat. like a PP said, we don't think it's right to hurt animals. (now explaining to him why I'm a vegetarian and still wear leather shoes and carry leather purses is a whole other issue. I can't explain or defend it. DH doesn't wear leather.) good luck to you, OP, and congratulations on deciding to raise your little one vegetarian.

[Anonymous]

19:31 PP here, OP (... )

I would love to. Like most parents of small-ish children, I'm insanely overbooked, underslept, overworked, etc. etc., so I'm a little time-poor. But let me know what works for you. I don't have a non-identifying email addy, so if you feel OK with this, can you post a way to reach you that you feel safe with?

[DanielleJoe]

Group,

First, we are a family of 5 who are all vegetarians. Our children have been vegetarian since birth, when we as a couple/parents made this decision.

At our daughter's 1 year pediatrician appointment, the pediatrician noted that her weight was well below the percentage charts (no weight gain since her 9 month appointment) for US children we presume. All other developmental indicators (height, head circumference, muscle tone, fine and gross motor skills, etc.) all seem to be on target. (No discussion on how many calories she burns off during a normal day of activity!)

He did however cautiously indicate some concern with her wieght and indicated that we should work to help her put on a few more pounds / bulk up. He of course offered animal fats in terms of dairy (knowing that we do not eat meat) as an addition to her diet, suggesting that we now start her on whole milk (as she is 1 years old). He even suggested that we add butter to her food. I then probed him for other healthier plant-based alternatives (I later began to question whether she really needs to bulk up or to just add weight for weight's sake). All I could think of on the fly at the appointment were avacados and olive oil but the pediatrician did not respond to my suggestions in any direct way. Granted, he is not a nutritionalist.

Now, I am concerned with his message that 1) our daughter even needs to bulk up (that weight is any measure of her proper development) and 2) that my breastmilk is insufficient and in some way the cause of her low weight (asking me how often I nurse as if she was nursing too much, filling up on breastmilk and not eating other foods, and when I was going to wean her). Whole other discussion...

I am very concerned that he would just ask us to add animal fats to her diet with no concern for long term, healthy dietary habits or the nutritional value (or lack thereof) of animal fats. (While I eat dairy and breastfeed, we have not directly given our daughter any dairy and even made a vegan cake for her for her first birthday.)

I am sure this story will garner a lot of responses and discussions in homes across the area as it has gotten us talking and asking friends/families and reaching out to this resource.

So, in any account, we are looking to expand the variety of foods we offer to all three of our children, being mindful of allergins, and we eat ourselves, especially as I plan to continue breastfeeding. We are interested in plant-based foods with healthy fats. Any suggestions or input to inform our thinking would be greatly appreciated as we are still trying to sort out what happened at that appointment.

Thanks,
Danielle (& Joe)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have been borderline vegetarian for a long time but the recent HSUS report and then reading Fast Food Nation has put me over the edge. We already get milk, eggs, yogurt and chicken from a local farm (we may keep a *little* chicken so long as it is organic and humane and I know where it is coming from.)

What I am curious about is how I raise my son this way without making him judgemental, etc. How do I teach him that we don't eat at McDonalds (or any fast food) when other little kids are going there, etc or how do I teach him that we dont eat it because it is bad for you - but I dont want him telling other kids that they are wrong, you know what I mean? I am just not sure how to go about this and how I am going to message this to him.

thank you for your advice!

Just don't go there (McDonalds)! I'm a vegetarian but my husband is a carnivore-I've compromised by letting our son eat chicken (free roaming/hormone free) and fish.

I don't eat for moral reasons and haven't eaten meat in over 20 years, not even while I was pregnant. I'll explain to my son why I don't eat meat but I feel it should be his decision if he chooses to eat meat. I have a friend whose daughter is 7 and has never eaten meat-and she can tell you all about slaughter houses, inhumane treatment of animals, etc. She once told me she didn't chew gumballs because they contained horse by products! Children talk but aren't condescending at a young age, and I think it's great if children can have conviction.

[Anonymous]

DanielleJoe - I think you are correct that the weight gain measurement is a U.S. thing and is based on the Standard American diet of children fed unhealthy animal fats, cholesterol and saturated fat. I bet if you looked at weight gain in more traditional societies in China, Japan, South America, etc, you would find that your child is right on target. If you do want your child to gain weight to get the pediatrician off your back, it sounds like you know exactly what healthy fats to feed - avocado, nuts. In my opinion, most doctors don't know a thing about healthy nutrition and only prescribe what they are taught (which is often funded by the meat and dairy and other such industries). Take a look, for example, at the number of people in this country for whom doctors prescribe cholesterol-lowering medications without ever suggesting that they give up eating their bacon, eggs, steak and McDonalds every day. I think you should go with your own instinct on this one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ummmm - ok, so I just read the article posted. Thanks? Not sure what your point was but don't worry, I am plenty educated about what I am doing and I am sure the vegans that posted on this thread are too. Would you like me to post the disgusting video of cows being prodded and stomped on, dying and in pain as they go to the slaughter house? Would you like me to describe in detail how they kill a cow and often puncture the intestines so that shit is sprayed everywhere and on everyone and therefore ends up in your food? Have you been following the story about the E Coli outbreak at the Boy Scout Camp? Why is it taking them so long to tell us where that meat came from and who else it was distributed to? I hope there is none in your freezer.

Sorry to everyone else for my little outburst. But I thought posting that vegan article was a little on the rude side.

Thank you to everyone else with your thoughtful ideas.

First of all people who go vegan for humane reasons in such a food rich area such as the greater DC region is completely mislead and missing out. On that note, going vegan based on health again is foolish because it is not a more healthy way to nourish your body, this is common knowledge. There is a large range of vitamins our body can only absorb through animal protein because we ARE Omnivores-a biological fact.

I do not eat grocery store meat, for humane and health reasons (your same reason for buying into veganism). There are dozens of local farms that you can visit yourself that sell direct to the public. You can visit their slaughter houses and processing facilities. You can go to the farm for a day and observe the chicken slaughter and processing yourself (chickens can be processed on farm site for now). I have a freezer stocked with about 200lbs of humanely raised pork, chicken, lamb, and beef. All of this grass fed, free range meat is the most healthy food I can feed my family. It is just absurd to go extreme and swear off all meat. You need to take issue with industrial farming not meat.

Maybe people should direct more of their concern to veggies and the 500,000 children that come as migrant workers from Central America to toil in your conventional and organic fields to put cheap food and that big Costco box of organic "Earthbound Spring Mix" on your table. These children have no access to medical care and no access to schools and sometimes die in the name of arugula. Again, you don't have to support this exploitation by participating in a CSA or doing some due diligence and visiting some of the farms from your local farmers market.

Please enlighten yourself and read some Michael Pollen, Nancy Planck, Sally Fallon, and Barbara Kingsolver’s "Animal Vegetable Miracle". You are spending too much time on PETAs website.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ummmm - ok, so I just read the article posted. Thanks? Not sure what your point was but don't worry, I am plenty educated about what I am doing and I am sure the vegans that posted on this thread are too. Would you like me to post the disgusting video of cows being prodded and stomped on, dying and in pain as they go to the slaughter house? Would you like me to describe in detail how they kill a cow and often puncture the intestines so that shit is sprayed everywhere and on everyone and therefore ends up in your food? Have you been following the story about the E Coli outbreak at the Boy Scout Camp? Why is it taking them so long to tell us where that meat came from and who else it was distributed to? I hope there is none in your freezer.

Sorry to everyone else for my little outburst. But I thought posting that vegan article was a little on the rude side.

Thank you to everyone else with your thoughtful ideas.

First of all people who go vegan for humane reasons in such a food rich area such as the greater DC region is completely mislead and missing out. On that note, going vegan based on health again is foolish because it is not a more healthy way to nourish your body, this is common knowledge. There is a large range of vitamins our body can only absorb through animal protein because we ARE Omnivores-a biological fact.

I do not eat grocery store meat, for humane and health reasons (your same reason for buying into veganism). There are dozens of local farms that you can visit yourself that sell direct to the public. You can visit their slaughter houses and processing facilities. You can go to the farm for a day and observe the chicken slaughter and processing yourself (chickens can be processed on farm site for now). I have a freezer stocked with about 200lbs of humanely raised pork, chicken, lamb, and beef. All of this grass fed, free range meat is the most healthy food I can feed my family. It is just absurd to go extreme and swear off all meat. You need to take issue with industrial farming not meat.

Maybe people should direct more of their concern to veggies and the 500,000 children that come as migrant workers from Central America to toil in your conventional and organic fields to put cheap food and that big Costco box of organic "Earthbound Spring Mix" on your table. These children have no access to medical care and no access to schools and sometimes die in the name of arugula. Again, you don't have to support this exploitation by participating in a CSA or doing some due diligence and visiting some of the farms from your local farmers market.

Please enlighten yourself and read some Michael Pollen, Nancy Planck, Sally Fallon, and Barbara Kingsolver’s "Animal Vegetable Miracle". You are spending too much time on PETAs website.

You really dont' have to be so condescending - especially since i'm sure your house is filled with things made by workers on very low wage/no health insurance/etc, so please step off your soap box.

Local is better, but it's still killing an animal. Some people belive eating flesh is awful. That killing the animal at all is morally unjust. Have you also ever looked into the environmental detriments of breeding animals for consumption? Maybe YOU should do some reading and enlighten yourself.

Our bodies can actual handle basically any diet you throw at all - as long as it's plant based. That's biology. Humans should consume VERY small amounts of animal protein (a measly few ozs/day) : replacing that protein with beans, nuts and soy (tempeh is unfermented for all you anti-soy) is a viable and EDUCATED decision.

So, not so fast lady.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ummmm - ok, so I just read the article posted. Thanks? Not sure what your point was but don't worry, I am plenty educated about what I am doing and I am sure the vegans that posted on this thread are too. Would you like me to post the disgusting video of cows being prodded and stomped on, dying and in pain as they go to the slaughter house? Would you like me to describe in detail how they kill a cow and often puncture the intestines so that shit is sprayed everywhere and on everyone and therefore ends up in your food? Have you been following the story about the E Coli outbreak at the Boy Scout Camp? Why is it taking them so long to tell us where that meat came from and who else it was distributed to? I hope there is none in your freezer.

Sorry to everyone else for my little outburst. But I thought posting that vegan article was a little on the rude side.

Thank you to everyone else with your thoughtful ideas.

First of all people who go vegan for humane reasons in such a food rich area such as the greater DC region is completely mislead and missing out. On that note, going vegan based on health again is foolish because it is not a more healthy way to nourish your body, this is common knowledge. There is a large range of vitamins our body can only absorb through animal protein because we ARE Omnivores-a biological fact.

I do not eat grocery store meat, for humane and health reasons (your same reason for buying into veganism). There are dozens of local farms that you can visit yourself that sell direct to the public. You can visit their slaughter houses and processing facilities. You can go to the farm for a day and observe the chicken slaughter and processing yourself (chickens can be processed on farm site for now). I have a freezer stocked with about 200lbs of humanely raised pork, chicken, lamb, and beef. All of this grass fed, free range meat is the most healthy food I can feed my family. It is just absurd to go extreme and swear off all meat. You need to take issue with industrial farming not meat.

Maybe people should direct more of their concern to veggies and the 500,000 children that come as migrant workers from Central America to toil in your conventional and organic fields to put cheap food and that big Costco box of organic "Earthbound Spring Mix" on your table. These children have no access to medical care and no access to schools and sometimes die in the name of arugula. Again, you don't have to support this exploitation by participating in a CSA or doing some due diligence and visiting some of the farms from your local farmers market.

Please enlighten yourself and read some Michael Pollen, Nancy Planck, Sally Fallon, and Barbara Kingsolver’s "Animal Vegetable Miracle". You are spending too much time on PETAs website.

...uh...OK whatever.

There are ways to ensure your child gets what s/he needs without meat, though it is definitely significantly more difficult as a vegan. I would advise seeing a nutritionist familiar with the issues.

We're lacto-ovo, BTW. My understanding is that the fats/oils/aminos necessary for proper brain development in early childhood are why many peds push full-fat dairy and eggs for little kids. Full-fat dairy and eggs are not bad for you in and of themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ummmm - ok, so I just read the article posted. Thanks? Not sure what your point was but don't worry, I am plenty educated about what I am doing and I am sure the vegans that posted on this thread are too. Would you like me to post the disgusting video of cows being prodded and stomped on, dying and in pain as they go to the slaughter house? Would you like me to describe in detail how they kill a cow and often puncture the intestines so that shit is sprayed everywhere and on everyone and therefore ends up in your food? Have you been following the story about the E Coli outbreak at the Boy Scout Camp? Why is it taking them so long to tell us where that meat came from and who else it was distributed to? I hope there is none in your freezer.

Sorry to everyone else for my little outburst. But I thought posting that vegan article was a little on the rude side.

Thank you to everyone else with your thoughtful ideas.

First of all people who go vegan for humane reasons in such a food rich area such as the greater DC region is completely mislead and missing out. On that note, going vegan based on health again is foolish because it is not a more healthy way to nourish your body, this is common knowledge. There is a large range of vitamins our body can only absorb through animal protein because we ARE Omnivores-a biological fact.

I do not eat grocery store meat, for humane and health reasons (your same reason for buying into veganism). There are dozens of local farms that you can visit yourself that sell direct to the public. You can visit their slaughter houses and processing facilities. You can go to the farm for a day and observe the chicken slaughter and processing yourself (chickens can be processed on farm site for now). I have a freezer stocked with about 200lbs of humanely raised pork, chicken, lamb, and beef. All of this grass fed, free range meat is the most healthy food I can feed my family. It is just absurd to go extreme and swear off all meat. You need to take issue with industrial farming not meat.

Maybe people should direct more of their concern to veggies and the 500,000 children that come as migrant workers from Central America to toil in your conventional and organic fields to put cheap food and that big Costco box of organic "Earthbound Spring Mix" on your table. These children have no access to medical care and no access to schools and sometimes die in the name of arugula. Again, you don't have to support this exploitation by participating in a CSA or doing some due diligence and visiting some of the farms from your local farmers market.

Please enlighten yourself and read some Michael Pollen, Nancy Planck, Sally Fallon, and Barbara Kingsolver’s "Animal Vegetable Miracle". You are spending too much time on PETAs website.

Just like I don't condemn people who eat meat-you shouldn't condemn people who don't eat meat. If you feel passionate about anything, you walk the walk.

[Anonymous]

PP here-meant to write walk the talk.