s/o Tracking

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do private school track or differentiate?

Yes or course. At least the good ones but they don't call it "tracking" but differentiation, but it's obvious kids are "tracked." Much more obvious in the higher grades where kids go to different math/english classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do private school track or differentiate?

Yes or course. At least the good ones but they don't call it "tracking" but differentiation, but it's obvious kids are "tracked." Much more obvious in the higher grades where kids go to different math/english classes.

So no one has an issue with this at Privates.

[Anonymous]

Above was a question...sorry.

[Anonymous]

I don't understand how a school could NOT track and still be a quality option for most kids. Don't children display differing levels of ability and interest in different subjects? And shouldn't class choices be tailored to

I went to a highly regarded Fairfax County high school. I took AP English and history courses and excelled, but was in the basic math classes, both by choice and ability. In my elementary school some kids were pulled out for Gifted and Talented classes a couple of times per week.

Aren't these examples of tracking? I don't see the issue. And I don't see the outrage in ths suburbs...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:12:11 again. As a parent, I would not send my child to a school that did not track or differentiate or whatever you want to call it according to ability.

I agree with this, and it's one of the concerns I see arising at our well-regarded charter school. The focus is on bringing the bottom up, so to speak, but I've heard grumblings that the advanced kids (or even those on grade level) aren't provided appropriate instruction. I believe they are very anti-tracking. No so much an iss e in pre-k, but we're already starting to see it here.

This is my fear too at our charter, YY (there I've said it so don't jump all over me). We sent our child for the Chinese which our family does not speak and plan to stick it out for the lower grades but will probably be gone by 4th if we don't see a great curriculum in place by then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do private school track or differentiate?

Yes or course. At least the good ones but they don't call it "tracking" but differentiation, but it's obvious kids are "tracked." Much more obvious in the higher grades where kids go to different math/english classes.

So no one has an issue with this at Privates.

Why would they? Parents pay big bucks to have advanced English, Math,... smaller classes, personalized attention, great (hopefully) teachers.

Thomas Jefferson's entry is based on their entranced exam. No one has a problem with them either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how a school could NOT track and still be a quality option for most kids. Don't children display differing levels of ability and interest in different subjects? And shouldn't class choices be tailored to

I went to a highly regarded Fairfax County high school. I took AP English and history courses and excelled, but was in the basic math classes, both by choice and ability. In my elementary school some kids were pulled out for Gifted and Talented classes a couple of times per week.

Aren't these examples of tracking? I don't see the issue. And I don't see the outrage in ths suburbs...

It's obvious from the other thread that people only have a problem with tracking if it's their child who gets "tracked" into the low achiever group.

[Anonymous]

Check out this article today from the NY Times "Occupy the Classroom"--Money quote when thinking about tracking:

"“Schooling after the second grade plays only a minor role in creating or reducing gaps,” Heckman argues in an important article this year in American Educator. It is imperative to change the way we look at education. We should invest in the foundation of school readiness from birth to age 5.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/20/opinion/occupy-the-classroom.html?_r=1&src=tp&smid=fb-share

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So PP, would you agree that the word "tracking" is different and accepted (because of advanced/different curriculum) for advanced student, but we replace "differentiation" as a substitute for the word tracking for struggling kids because of emotional freight?

Some of the semantics bother me--it is common sense that all students have their progress "tracked" by their teachers. Parents get report cards, and spelling tests, and notes home that tell us about our children. I believe that "tracking" informally occurs regardless of whether it is in the same class, outside the class, pull out groups, etc.

Since I kind of take tracking as a given (formal and informal), my question is why we are ok with pull out groups and separate reading tables, but not separate class rooms and separate programs? Kids know the difference regardless of who the "smart kids" are.

My personal belief is that given our country's racial history, we equate separateness with segregation which is terrible and awful which no good person would want. Also because I personally want all children to keep that magic of childhood alive where dreams are possible no matter what and where you are academically and socially. So "adult messaging" is very important to me.

Most parents with means and buy into their version of the "advanced tracking" by going to private school which is especially important for minority parents because of teachers that may place minority children into the wrong track automatically as a reflex to skin color.


BUT I think unfortunately our discomfort as a society with both formal and informal "tracking" has led to all sorts of unfortunate side effects:

lack of vocational schooling;
college for all! model of education
wrong messaging to kids in both the "high" track and "low" track (You are smart and special!--hate this for kids on the advanced track)

I don't know what the answers are, but I have very mixed feelings on this topic.

11:57 here: Yes, I think that is the case. If my child were struggling I believe I would want his/her teacher to "differentiate" their instruction, but I would be uncomfortable if my child were pulled out of the classroom and placed in a separate class. This is a difficult issue as you stated in your post. My child is 2E, and we are actively dealing with similar issues. My son needs IEP services and accommodations for social/behavioral issues and he is ahead of the majority of his class. I am glad that his charter practices inclusiveness and he is not pulled out and receives services in the classroom. However, it is still obvious that he is getting additional attention. The handful of kids in his class that are advanced also receive differentiated instruction and it is obvious that they (including my son) are different in terms of their school work and what is expected of them in the classroom. The other kids start to figure this out.

For example, I remember being in 1st grade and thinking negatively of the kids that were in what I now understand as the low-reading group. I remember picking up their books and noticing that it was all pictures, no words and they couldn't keep up with the teacher in general. Those kids (at least in my private school) never lost the label of being stupid for my entire time at the school (8th grade!). Would I have noticed if they were not grouped together in the classroom during reading or math or in a separate classroom from the beginning? These are difficult questions. No one gets upset when the smart kids are placed in an entire different classroom for GT. In NYC, where we are from, we have friends with children that are going straight to GT programs in PK4, they will never be wilth the average to below-average kids in school. That is tracking, nothing else to call it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So PP, would you agree that the word "tracking" is different and accepted (because of advanced/different curriculum) for advanced student, but we replace "differentiation" as a substitute for the word tracking for struggling kids because of emotional freight?

Some of the semantics bother me--it is common sense that all students have their progress "tracked" by their teachers. Parents get report cards, and spelling tests, and notes home that tell us about our children. I believe that "tracking" informally occurs regardless of whether it is in the same class, outside the class, pull out groups, etc.

Since I kind of take tracking as a given (formal and informal), my question is why we are ok with pull out groups and separate reading tables, but not separate class rooms and separate programs? Kids know the difference regardless of who the "smart kids" are.

My personal belief is that given our country's racial history, we equate separateness with segregation which is terrible and awful which no good person would want. Also because I personally want all children to keep that magic of childhood alive where dreams are possible no matter what and where you are academically and socially. So "adult messaging" is very important to me.

Most parents with means and buy into their version of the "advanced tracking" by going to private school which is especially important for minority parents because of teachers that may place minority children into the wrong track automatically as a reflex to skin color.


BUT I think unfortunately our discomfort as a society with both formal and informal "tracking" has led to all sorts of unfortunate side effects:

lack of vocational schooling;
college for all! model of education
wrong messaging to kids in both the "high" track and "low" track (You are smart and special!--hate this for kids on the advanced track)

I don't know what the answers are, but I have very mixed feelings on this topic.

11:57 here: Yes, I think that is the case. If my child were struggling I believe I would want his/her teacher to "differentiate" their instruction, but I would be uncomfortable if my child were pulled out of the classroom and placed in a separate class. This is a difficult issue as you stated in your post. My child is 2E, and we are actively dealing with similar issues. My son needs IEP services and accommodations for social/behavioral issues and he is ahead of the majority of his class. I am glad that his charter practices inclusiveness and he is not pulled out and receives services in the classroom. However, it is still obvious that he is getting additional attention. The handful of kids in his class that are advanced also receive differentiated instruction and it is obvious that they (including my son) are different in terms of their school work and what is expected of them in the classroom. The other kids start to figure this out.

For example, I remember being in 1st grade and thinking negatively of the kids that were in what I now understand as the low-reading group. I remember picking up their books and noticing that it was all pictures, no words and they couldn't keep up with the teacher in general. Those kids (at least in my private school) never lost the label of being stupid for my entire time at the school (8th grade!). Would I have noticed if they were not grouped together in the classroom during reading or math or in a separate classroom from the beginning? These are difficult questions. No one gets upset when the smart kids are placed in an entire different classroom for GT. In NYC, where we are from, we have friends with children that are going straight to GT programs in PK4, they will never be wilth the average to below-average kids in school. That is tracking, nothing else to call it.

Oops. I should have said "GT programs for K", not PK4. They were in private nursery schools for PK4.

[Anonymous]

Hunter or Anderson or? I'm sure many people in DC will find it hard to believe that NYC public GT programs have entry for GT K based on IQ scores but these programs are very sought after by EVERYONE.

Unfortunately, a public magnet elementary school based on ability would never fly in DC.

[Anonymous]

Yes or course. At least the good ones but they don't call it "tracking" but differentiation, but it's obvious kids are "tracked." Much more obvious in the higher grades where kids go to different math/english classes.

So no one has an issue with this at Privates.

Actually, you would be surprised. Plenty of parents, along with the touchyfeely progressive curriculum administrators, have an issue with ability tracking in K-6. With the result of a lot of thumb twiddling by the smarter, faster children. In beautiful surroundings

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yes or course. At least the good ones but they don't call it "tracking" but differentiation, but it's obvious kids are "tracked." Much more obvious in the higher grades where kids go to different math/english classes.

So no one has an issue with this at Privates.

Actually, you would be surprised. Plenty of parents, along with the touchyfeely progressive curriculum administrators, have an issue with ability tracking in K-6. With the result of a lot of thumb twiddling by the smarter, faster children. In beautiful surroundings

C'mon. You gotta name names... so we can avoid these duds.

[Anonymous]

progressive touchyfeely

hmm, Green Acres? Lowell?

[Anonymous]

Why is there an SWW but not a middle school equivalent?