Ward 5 Issues

[Anonymous]

My summary of the meeting:

A bit chaotic, with minimally effective leadership by DCPS. About 100-150 parents attended, along w a host of DCPS staff and politicos (Thomas, Brown, Wells, all making speeches and shaking hands).

DCPS laid out options for moving forward-don't have specific notes here but they basically include consolidation into fewer PK-8 ECs, creating a stand alone middle school (still consolidating elems), and another model of ECs and then a 6-12 high school. The DCPS folks stressed that "size matters" and for any school to be successful it needs 400-600 students. For an Education Campus to work, it would need 400-600 at elem level, and 400-600 at middle school level too.

Right now, most of the Ward 5 ECs have @ 350 students, w 75 or so middle schoolers each. It wasn't emphasized, but it's clear that schools will need to close to make the numbers work.

People questioned DCPS's focus on per school enrollment numbers, but both Brown and DCPS both stuck to the point that they matter.

DCPS wants to make a decision soon, opening a new facility (if any) by the 2012/2013 school year.

Parents wondered why DCPS wanted to go thru this process when it was clear that most people want a stand alone MS. Others said that DCPS is spending too much time focusing on configuration and not enough on curriculum. Others wanted to talk about how to address failures at middle school level right now-- like inadequate facilities, staff, etc.

What I don't understand is-- if size really does matter for course offerings, funding, and facilities, as DCPS says, why they ever thought the PK-8 schools would work in the first place? Most of these schools have 75 middle school kids spread out over 3 grades. Couldn't they have done the math back in 2008 and figured out it would never work?

And also-- if Ward 5's middle schools were closed for a reason-- if they were failing kids-- why would anyone think that reconstituting them would work better the second time @? I didn’t hear anything that would convince me that things will be any different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My summary of the meeting:

A bit chaotic, with minimally effective leadership by DCPS. About 100-150 parents attended, along w a host of DCPS staff and politicos (Thomas, Brown, Wells, all making speeches and shaking hands).

DCPS laid out options for moving forward-don't have specific notes here but they basically include consolidation into fewer PK-8 ECs, creating a stand alone middle school (still consolidating elems), and another model of ECs and then a 6-12 high school. The DCPS folks stressed that "size matters" and for any school to be successful it needs 400-600 students. For an Education Campus to work, it would need 400-600 at elem level, and 400-600 at middle school level too.

Right now, most of the Ward 5 ECs have @ 350 students, w 75 or so middle schoolers each. It wasn't emphasized, but it's clear that schools will need to close to make the numbers work.

People questioned DCPS's focus on per school enrollment numbers, but both Brown and DCPS both stuck to the point that they matter.

DCPS wants to make a decision soon, opening a new facility (if any) by the 2012/2013 school year.

Parents wondered why DCPS wanted to go thru this process when it was clear that most people want a stand alone MS. Others said that DCPS is spending too much time focusing on configuration and not enough on curriculum. Others wanted to talk about how to address failures at middle school level right now-- like inadequate facilities, staff, etc.

What I don't understand is-- if size really does matter for course offerings, funding, and facilities, as DCPS says, why they ever thought the PK-8 schools would work in the first place? Most of these schools have 75 middle school kids spread out over 3 grades. Couldn't they have done the math back in 2008 and figured out it would never work?

And also-- if Ward 5's middle schools were closed for a reason-- if they were failing kids-- why would anyone think that reconstituting them would work better the second time @? I didn’t hear anything that would convince me that things will be any different.

If size matters so much, why are many of the top private schools so small? Have you taken a look at Maret?

[Anonymous]

I'm the PP. I'm just repeating what DCPS said. Like I said, lots of people challenged this assertion.

[Anonymous]

Yes look at Maret- $30,000 plus a year. Last I saw the DCPS budget is not expanding. Every non-classroom teacher (art, library, gym, special ed are more expensive for a smaller school on a per-capita basis.)

[Anonymous]

Right. I think DCPS allocates $11 or $12K per pupil. Less than half of Maret.

[Anonymous]

Wow-that sounds like more school closures for Ward 5 no matter what--I wonder what is next? Burroughs or Langdon or Noyes- or Emery or LaSalle Backus-were these schools discussed?

[Anonymous]

No specifics. It does sound like there will be more closures for sure.

[Anonymous]

Yes, there will be more closures for sure. I think we have 8 schools now in Ward 5. They are talking about 4-5 elementary + a middle or 2-3 ed campuses (I believe).

Tney said they will address the program specifics once they decide on grade configuration but it seems an odd way to go about it to me.

Rae Zapata of the Ward 5 Council on Education said, "build it and they will come. Back from Hardy, from Deal, from Stuart Hobson and charters." I don't think so actually.

Anyway they are looking at an "International Bacc. Arts and Science Middle School. I guess they'll decide on program specifics are grade configuration. But they kept saying --size matters. I agree, it does matter when you're dealing with a DCPS budget. Maret is irrelevant.

[Anonymous]

Double posting. This post from the 'Deal expansion" thread explains why I don't think "Build it and they will come" will work. We middle class Ward 5 parents need to figure out how to get our kids into middle schools where they have a lot of middle class (therefore likely at least 'proficient') peers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not really. Building fantastic middle schools in other wards that would allow kids to stay in their own neighborhoods would probably increase segregation. Should we avoid that action? Be honest in your terms. Racial segregation isn't the issue here. The big issue is segregated access to quality education seeing everything in terms of race and racism is holding dc back.

Missing from this line of thought is that the desirable schools – elementary, middle or high schools – have a majority of students at grade level. Generally, unless a school has mostly proficient students, it will not be sought after. And no one, with a reasonable amount of money, can simply create a desirable school east of the park. That’s what makes DC so darn tough – there are not enough proficient students to go around and make every school attractive to parents. It’s a deficit model. East of the park I’d bet DCPS is about 25% proficient.

Parents instinctively want their child to be surrounded by smart and well behaved kids. Parents don’t want long-range planning for their child; they want to see a school working before their child enrolls. Parents don’t want their child to be an agent of social change, they want their children simply join an already existing strong cohort.

Parents of non-proficient also want to send their kids to schools that are majority proficient – it stretches their kid upward.

If parents instinctively want a school that is majority proficient, there’s no way to give them that without selective enrollment/admission.

The quickest way to improve DCPS is create as many majority proficient schools as possible. Doing so helps more struggling students than is currently the case. And creating more majority proficient and desirable schools will attract/retain proficient students – creating a positive feedback loop that strengthens the system.

Additionally, the higher a school’s proficiency and the larger its enrollment, the less expensive a school is to operate. And that savings should be used to fund the best remediation schools possible for whatever students cannot enroll in majority proficient schools.

As a parent, I feel like DCPS can monkey around all they want with buildings, with programs, with this and that, but for me, the disqualifier is a cohort that is mostly below grade level.

It ain’t pretty, but the quickest way to improve DCPS is create as many majority proficient schools as possible.

[Anonymous]

A big problem in Ward 5 is that charters are siphoning off kids who will be proficient in middle school years. I'm a charter school supporter and parent, don't get me wrong. But DCPS needs to improve the offerings during the early years to capture those kids. They basically ignored the impact of charter schools on DCPS Ward 5 student demographics.

I agree that a new Ward 5 middle school is likely to fail for all the reasons that the old ones did.

[Anonymous]

totally agree with you, PP.

Here's Bill Turque's take on the evening:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-schools-insider/post/in-ward-5-calls-for-more-action-on-schools-less-process/2011/09/30/gIQACwZcAL_blog.html#pagebreak

[Anonymous]

It is not just charters, it is privates also. This area has several decent Catholic options including: St. Anselm's's and DeMatha. When I talk to my older neighbors in Brookland many say they have never been willing to commit to the local schools.

[Anonymous]

Ward Five is setting themselves up for failure if their only goal is getting a stand alone middle school.

As a Ward Six parent, I would actually prefer to have two of our three middle schools closed. I want Eliot Hine filled to capacity - generating economies of scale and concentrating a critical mass of strong students.

Also, Ward Six middle school seats were significantly limited, the spots at Eliot Hine would increase in value and be more coveted (like happened at Stuart Hobson) thus raising their value and attracting a stronger cohort.

[Anonymous]

CORRECTION

Also, if Ward Six middle seats were significantly limited, . . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ward Five is setting themselves up for failure if their only goal is getting a stand alone middle school.

As a Ward Six parent, I would actually prefer to have two of our three middle schools closed. I want Eliot Hine filled to capacity - generating economies of scale and concentrating a critical mass of strong students.

Also, Ward Six middle school seats were significantly limited, the spots at Eliot Hine would increase in value and be more coveted (like happened at Stuart Hobson) thus raising their value and attracting a stronger cohort.

This is only if Hine is perceived as achieving, safe, and enriching. Having limited spots for a sub-par school is silly.