What's a good/healthy/tear-free way for Ex-H to end each visit with DS instead of just sneaking off?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:11:34 here. PP you say, " I wish I knew you in real life." The thing is you can know me in real life -- I am that family member who might surprise you with my support if only you told me what was going on, that person from AA support group who has been there and learned something, that 4th therapist you tried that finally "got it," that friend who was not your BFF but listened non-judgmentally when you let a little bit slip, etc.

What I'm trying to say is please get connected in person, especially with other people who have been where you are now. Where to find this depends on what the problem is. If substance abuse is part of the problem try Al-Anon. If bipolar is an issue, get on the support listserv at www.bpso.org -- you will find many of "me" there. Get a therapist for yourself, not to self-examine/self-blame, but to manage your life with DH's issues. Read books, take classes, find experts, educate yourself. Think about it all and take what seems to apply to your situation and adapt it for you.

For a good 2 years I isolated myself dealing with these issues only with DH and his doctors and our therapists. Unfortunately, I waited until I kicked him out before I started to tell select people what was going on in my life. When I did, I was shocked by the amazing support I got. I didn't get to where I am by myself. (And I'm still not where I want to be.)

You will come out the other side of this crisis. When you do, pay it forward.

Hugs to you.

23:34 here. How did you know I hadn't told anyone? I asked my husband to leave a month ago (SA and a possible personality disorder and perhaps even a bipolar issue), but have been struggling alone with this for years. Since then I've confided in a few close friends and my family. I'm also going to see two therapists, one of which specializes in DH's issues. The other one specializes in divorce and separation. And I go to my first COSA meeting next week.

It's like I came into the light when I started telling people. Hearing the words, "It's not your fault," over and over again has been shocking to me. I had been living with a lot of shame for years - and I was always scared of what DH might do next. It is a terrible way to go through life - isolated, scared and ashamed over someone else's actions.

I can't lie and say that I'm truly ready for a divorce, but I know this day is coming soon. Thank you for your post - I can see that you touched myself and another poster here.

Oh, and for paying it forward, I'm considering going back to school for a master's degree in social work. But for now, it's one day at a time. Thank you again for sharing your story. I will remember it for a long, long time to come - and again, I wish I did know you in real life. Best of luck for you, too, as you move forward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

23:34 here. How did you know I hadn't told anyone? I asked my husband to leave a month ago (SA and a possible personality disorder and perhaps even a bipolar issue), but have been struggling alone with this for years. Since then I've confided in a few close friends and my family. I'm also going to see two therapists, one of which specializes in DH's issues. The other one specializes in divorce and separation. And I go to my first COSA meeting next week.

I am troubled by the mixture of diagnoses -- "SA, personality disorder and "perhaps even" bipolar." It's been my experience that SA is often misdiagnosed when the real root problem is bipolar. Also, it is a well-known problem in the psych field that "personality disorder" is often diagnosed at times when the diagnosis of bipolar would be more appropriate. (Even recently, the main screening bipolar, the MDQ - mood disorder questionnaire -- was found to inappropriately diagnose borderline personality disorder when bipolar would be a more accurate diagnosis. In addition, in the last 5 -10 years or so there has been some discussion in the field between very well-known bipolar specialists about whether borderline personality disorder (or other personality disorders) are labels applied by medical professionals to person they view as irremediable, in order to view the lack of response by the patient to treatment as a failure of the patient instead of the medical professional.

All of the above is a long way of saying, if you think there is any possibility at all that bipolar is the issue your soon to be ex should be seen by a psychiatrist with extensive experience with bipolar. Has he seen a psychiatrist (MD)? Has he tried any meds like lithium or depakote or an any anti-psychotic (seroquel is a common one but not the only here)?

If you are relying on SA professionals (non-medical counselors w/ MSWs, PhDs or other non-MD degrees) to deal with the issue, and he has not seen an MD psychiatrist specializing in bipolar, then you are missing a critical part of getting an accurate diagnosis and effective treatment!

Many people think that if the person isn't psychotic or delusional (i.e. out of touch with reality) then it is not bipolar, but this is wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

23:34 here. How did you know I hadn't told anyone? I asked my husband to leave a month ago (SA and a possible personality disorder and perhaps even a bipolar issue), but have been struggling alone with this for years. Since then I've confided in a few close friends and my family. I'm also going to see two therapists, one of which specializes in DH's issues. The other one specializes in divorce and separation. And I go to my first COSA meeting next week.

I am troubled by the mixture of diagnoses -- "SA, personality disorder and "perhaps even" bipolar." It's been my experience that SA is often misdiagnosed when the real root problem is bipolar. Also, it is a well-known problem in the psych field that "personality disorder" is often diagnosed at times when the diagnosis of bipolar would be more appropriate. (Even recently, the main screening bipolar, the MDQ - mood disorder questionnaire -- was found to inappropriately diagnose borderline personality disorder when bipolar would be a more accurate diagnosis. In addition, in the last 5 -10 years or so there has been some discussion in the field between very well-known bipolar specialists about whether borderline personality disorder (or other personality disorders) are labels applied by medical professionals to person they view as irremediable, in order to view the lack of response by the patient to treatment as a failure of the patient instead of the medical professional.

All of the above is a long way of saying, if you think there is any possibility at all that bipolar is the issue your soon to be ex should be seen by a psychiatrist with extensive experience with bipolar. Has he seen a psychiatrist (MD)? Has he tried any meds like lithium or depakote or an any anti-psychotic (seroquel is a common one but not the only here)?

If you are relying on SA professionals (non-medical counselors w/ MSWs, PhDs or other non-MD degrees) to deal with the issue, and he has not seen an MD psychiatrist specializing in bipolar, then you are missing a critical part of getting an accurate diagnosis and effective treatment!

Many people think that if the person isn't psychotic or delusional (i.e. out of touch with reality) then it is not bipolar, but this is wrong.

No, no psychiatrist yet. I can barely get him to the CSAT. But thank you. I'm convinced he's bipolar. Will do my best to get him to a MD as I try to detach at the same time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

No, no psychiatrist yet. I can barely get him to the CSAT. But thank you. I'm convinced he's bipolar. Will do my best to get him to a MD as I try to detach at the same time.

11:34 here. This is my one huge regret in the whole unraveling of my relationship with my bipolar ex -- that I listened to sex addiction counselors inexperienced in bipolar who repeatedly told me that I had to "detach," that I was co-dependent (in trying to get him to get help), that only he could make decisions about his treatment. This was absolutely the wrong advice. While you can't drag a grown man to the psychiatrist, there are many ways to get him there short of by the hair kicking and screaming. I found the book "I'm not sick I don't need help" to be a really helpful read in thinking about how to talk to my ex about getting help.

I truly believe that if I had made the appointment and driven my Ex to a psychiatrist experienced in bipolar as soon as I feared bipolar that our family would be in a far better place today.

The huge irony is that my ex would have preferred to have an "addiction" or "personality disorder" to being "mentally ill." What internalization of stigma?! If a man had a cardiac condition which caused him to be constantly out of breath and weak, we wouldn't label him lazy and tell him he had to see a motivation counselor?! And his "motivation counselor" wouldn't say that his wife was codependent if she drove him to the doctor instead of telling him he should walk (which he obviously couldn't do). It would be a no-brainer to give such a man cardiac medications. Why do we treat bipolar differently? It is a brain illness that needs medication, and it is well-known that many persons with bipolar suffer from anosogonia (a lack of recognition that they are ill or have any symptoms of illness), so it's no surprise that a person with anosogonia doesn't think he needs treatment.

Whether or not we ultimately separated, it was better for him (and thus for me and our kids) if he saw a psychiatrist and got properly medicated. I can't imagine allowing him to have any unsupervised custody or visitation absent proper treatment.

You can "detach" in the sense of not allowing his ups and downs to roil you while still trying to get him help. For me, what worked is to take the emotion out of the equation and simply say to my ex -- I know you aren't happy like this and I know you aren't a bad person. I want you to have a life where you feel better whether or not you are with me. I made an appointment with the psychiatrist tomorrow. I will take you. I can go in for a little bit with you or wait outside. I'd like you just to talk to the doctor and consider what he/she says. You don't even have to mention bipolar or sex addiction in this conversation. You can focus on other symptoms like sleep or anxiety or restlessness.

Honestly, I think for a bipolar person that sex addiction counseling is virtually worthless without being properly medicated. (And likely unnecessary with proper medication.) Hypersexuality is a very strong sign of mania for many bipolars and counseling can't manage mania, only medication can.

Sorry to be so blunt.