Mom and autistic toddler kicked off plane

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to be brutal but a pilot and the steward/esses have to be resonsiblle for the lives/safety of sometimes hundreds of people. They cannot take a chance that a child cannot be strapped in or that yelling from a child who is unable to control oneself due to a medical condition could start to upset passengers and cause some sort of commotion. .

Yes, so can boozed up adults. And they DO. Maybe the airlines should stop selling alcohol on flights, too, if they can't take a chance that a passenger will cause a commotion.

[Anonymous]

I have seen a drunk passenger removed from a plane. So, the example really doesn't hold.

[Anonymous]

PP here - forgot to say that he was removed by the police. No muckin' around.

[Anonymous]

"Yes the mother should not fly with the child--flying is not a right, it's a priviledge and people forget that a pilot has discretion on having people on his plane."

Ever heard of the ADA? The parents should sue IMO.

[Anonymous]

"I sat on a plane with an autistic 8 yr. old for a very long flight. The mother tried to control him, but it was a nightmare for me. I tolerated it for 3/4 of the flight, but needed some sleep b/c I had to go to work that day. I could not sleep while being jabbed and kicked by this youngster, so I asked to be put in first class.
I will say that I had sympathy for that mother, as she was sweet and apologetic.
However, in some cases, parents with these kids might need to limit their travel."

I can't believe some of these posts. Are people so ignorant, and self centered that they would have a child with a disability not travel because it DISTURBS your experience and you need some sleep? Unbelievable, some people are horrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"I sat on a plane with an autistic 8 yr. old for a very long flight. The mother tried to control him, but it was a nightmare for me. I tolerated it for 3/4 of the flight, but needed some sleep b/c I had to go to work that day. I could not sleep while being jabbed and kicked by this youngster, so I asked to be put in first class.
I will say that I had sympathy for that mother, as she was sweet and apologetic.
However, in some cases, parents with these kids might need to limit their travel."

I can't believe some of these posts. Are people so ignorant, and self centered that they would have a child with a disability not travel because it DISTURBS your experience and you need some sleep? Unbelievable, some people are horrible.

I agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I sat on a plane with an autistic 8 yr. old for a very long flight. The mother tried to control him, but it was a nightmare for me. I tolerated it for 3/4 of the flight, but needed some sleep b/c I had to go to work that day. I could not sleep while being jabbed and kicked by this youngster, so I asked to be put in first class.
I will say that I had sympathy for that mother, as she was sweet and apologetic.
However, in some cases, parents with these kids might need to limit their travel.

do you have any idea how limited we parents with these kids already are??

I am the PP with the autistic child. I don't get an ounce of sleep on the flight. You know, I also don't get an ounce of sleep if I have a talkative, stinky, overweight or just unpleasant person next to me on the flight. Never asked for first class though.

It is a flight, people, it's for transportation. If you want sleep, then maybe you shouldn't fly. Oh wait, you had no choice? Well neither do I, if I want my children to know their grandparents, whom are the people designated to take care of them, if we die.

Life is complicated. I don't ask you if you absolutely had to be on a flight, hey, it would have been nice to have more space without somebody next to me, right?

I don't know any parents of autistic kids who make the choice to travel lightly. None. It is stressful for our children, stressful for us parents. But it is hours of pain vs. days or weeks of an experience for the kids.

*sigh* but why am I even defensive? I would actually be relieved if you asked for a seat in first class as soon as possible. Because all my apologies wouldn't help the situation. I have asked flight attendants to move people next to us to vacant seats that were the same as theirs (i. e. aisle seats, window) But that being said, I would not limit my flying anymore just so that everyone else on the flight can fulfill their sense of entitlement while removing me and my child from the list of people who deserve a seat on a plane.

Disclaimer: IF my child was out of my control and was disrupting the safety procedures and was not able to even fulfill the lowest standard (e.g. sit in my lap with a baby seat belt during take off, which is what we do to avoid this stuff) I would expect to be removed from the flight, but I would feel entitled to give it another try at another time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I sat on a plane with an autistic 8 yr. old for a very long flight. The mother tried to control him, but it was a nightmare for me. I tolerated it for 3/4 of the flight, but needed some sleep b/c I had to go to work that day. I could not sleep while being jabbed and kicked by this youngster, so I asked to be put in first class.
I will say that I had sympathy for that mother, as she was sweet and apologetic.
However, in some cases, parents with these kids might need to limit their travel.

do you have any idea how limited we parents with these kids already are??

I am the PP with the autistic child. I don't get an ounce of sleep on the flight. You know, I also don't get an ounce of sleep if I have a talkative, stinky, overweight or just unpleasant person next to me on the flight. Never asked for first class though.

It is a flight, people, it's for transportation. If you want sleep, then maybe you shouldn't fly. Oh wait, you had no choice? Well neither do I, if I want my children to know their grandparents, whom are the people designated to take care of them, if we die.

Life is complicated. I don't ask you if you absolutely had to be on a flight, hey, it would have been nice to have more space without somebody next to me, right?

I don't know any parents of autistic kids who make the choice to travel lightly. None. It is stressful for our children, stressful for us parents. But it is hours of pain vs. days or weeks of an experience for the kids.

*sigh* but why am I even defensive? I would actually be relieved if you asked for a seat in first class as soon as possible. Because all my apologies wouldn't help the situation. I have asked flight attendants to move people next to us to vacant seats that were the same as theirs (i. e. aisle seats, window) But that being said, I would not limit my flying anymore just so that everyone else on the flight can fulfill their sense of entitlement while removing me and my child from the list of people who deserve a seat on a plane.

Disclaimer: IF my child was out of my control and was disrupting the safety procedures and was not able to even fulfill the lowest standard (e.g. sit in my lap with a baby seat belt during take off, which is what we do to avoid this stuff) I would expect to be removed from the flight, but I would feel entitled to give it another try at another time.

Thank you for your post. I feel like you are trying to explain things that every mother should understand, but from some of the replies on this thread, I guess I'm wrong.

[Anonymous]

PP - totally agree with you and I don't feel you need to be defensive at all.

I just don't get why people think it's their right to have a peaceful, undisturbed flight (or any other method of transportation out there). You bought a ticket to get you from point A to point B. You did not buy peace & quiet, a comfy place to sleep or rest, or a nice drink or meal. If you happen to get all of these, that's wonderful - you had a great flight. If you happen to have a screaming baby on your flight, o well. Luck of the draw.

This is not the 1950s when air travel was supposedly luxurious and glamorous. Air travel nowadays is just another form of mass transit.

[Anonymous]

To the poster who asked to be moved to first class - don't think that there are no babies in first class. DS is 13 mo and has flown with us 5 times so far - all in first class, including international.

[Anonymous]

I have a 4yo who just received compliments from strangers for good behavior on a flight. I was shocked, because I'm so used to the opposite - dirty looks and/or hostility (including from flight attendants) for any behavior that doesn't involve total silence and sitting perfectly still. My son isn't on the spectrum, but he's extremely high energy and we've had some truly awful flights. Seatbelts used to be a huge struggle, and we've had horrendous meltdowns due to missed naps and/or long waits. The DVD has been a godsend, but when you have to turn off electronics for landing, we used to have total hysteria.

We don't fly frequently (we've had to face the wrath of the inlaws because we've concluded he's too hyper to sit through a 6hour cross country flight) and we do everything in our power to prevent problems or mitigate his behavior. But no child's behavior is 100 percent controllable, and there are times when he isn't a model child. Even on this recent flight, when he was buckled in properly his feet brushed up against the seat in front of his (too short for his legs to hang down to the floor) and so every time he moved (which was every 2 seconds) he tapped the seat in front of him. I spent the whole flight trying to keep him from fidgeting or force him to sit with his legs crossed. Even that was exhausting - and this was a successful trip, with only 1 kid! So my sympathies will always be the parents of misbehaving children on flights, especially those with disabilities - I've never seen any parent who let their child run wild willingly.

When I traveled lots for business pre-kids, I know I rolled my eyes when seated next to a hellraiser, so I understand the reactions to some extent, but really the general tenor of people's expectations and understanding during air travel is just ridiculous. Especially from the airline employees. I've been treated with such hostility for simple requests (to board early or to fill a sippy cup with water back when you couldn't bring any liquids on). I still travel for work, mostly first class, so the contrast in the treatment outrages me even more. I know my business tickets are pricier, but in both cases I'm a paying customer and the airlines lose business from me because they make it so unpleasant for me to fly with my family.

[Anonymous]

I think there is an attempt here to find a middle ground by many posters (who are unfairly being labeled self-centered).

As to this particular situation, it sounds like the flight attendant (and the pilot) made a tough situation worse by their poor behavior. As a mother (especially if I were the mother of an autistic child), I would not have permitted a "stranger" to repeatedly yank my child's seatbelt. I would've told her to stop, and that I would tighten it... but hindsight is always 20/20. But regardless of who's fault it is, it does sound (to me, anyway) like it escalated to the point where they really did have to remove the mother and child. If the kid has flung himself on the floor, and can't/won't put his seatbelt on, I think the airline MUST take them off... its just too bad that American doesn't seem to realize the role that they played in moving the situation to that point.

As for travel generallly with kids (or even autistic kids), I think one of the PPs put it best... she recognizes that there might come a time where she has to de-plane, but thinks she should be able to try again. I totally support this. I have two "normal" (non-autistic) children, and we fly a LOT. The little one worries me, because he is active and strong willed. There might come a time when we get thrown off a plane, especially if it involves an overseas flight, jet lag, missed naps, hunger, waiting or any of the numerous other factors that can regularly (but unpredictably) make air travel so tough.

I think its unreasonable to expect kids to behave as adults on an airplane... but I think its reasonable to expect that they will be relatively well-behaved kids. What is "relative" should account for the length of flight, etc. I think some of the recent airline fiascos are a by-product of a generation of parents who tend to be more catering/accomodating to their children, with perhaps less of an emphasis on discipline and concern for others. I think SOME flight attendants are tired of bratty kids who won't be disciplined by their parents. I'm not defending the actions of the American attendant in this instance, but it could be that she (wrongly) sized up the situation as one of just hundreds of disobedient kids she's probably seen in the last few years, who didn't want to put on his seatbelt.

But for other passengers to expect a mother to know exactly when her 3 year old is going to "lose it" is unfair (regardless of whether or not the kid is autistic, disabled, or "normal"). If the Mom is unfortunate enough to have the child throw an absolute tantrum before take-off... you risk getting booted from the plane. But on a 5 hour flight? Who's to say the kid won't be fine? I get frustrated with people/passengers who make these judgments when you're at 30,000 feet, in hour 4 of your 8 hour flight, and your kid melts down. We all know that some of these are unforeseen... and some of them are just plain out of our control. On a recent 9 hour flight from Germany, we were all belted in on the plane when there was a medical emergency... we waited 90 minutes before takeoff... I felt my anxiety increasing with each passing moment, knowing that while my kids are generally well behaved, there is only so much sitting a 14 month old and a 3 year old can take. Fortunately for everyone we made it through the flight... but if they had exploded mid-way across the Atlantic, would that have been my fault? I don't think so. Should I have gotten off the plane on the CHANCE that they wouldn't make it? I don't think so.

[Anonymous]

I asked my friend's hubby about this particular situation as he is a pilot. He said first and foremost he would have to be there to judge as some situations are unique. That being said, if any passenger (child or adult) was having some sort of tantrum or meltdown prior to take off-he would make a judgement call as to whether that person could a)calm down b)was having some sort of medical problem that needed to be attended to. Also--all people need to be belted in--he would not have allowed the lap seating because if there was a hard takeoff-that child could be killed so it's a relevant safety concern esp. for a young child. This also goes with having things in the overhead compartment although he has never experienced someone out and out refusing to either put something in the overhead or having to take it off the plane to be stored after they were told they would have to leave. If he deemed someone too unruly--he would and has made them get off the plane and the airlines has made arrangements for another flight at a later time to see if said person can be calms down or..if the person has a medical considtion-they have went directly to a hospital and the airlines decides whether the person can be fit to fly at a later time--this would not be his call. When a flight is in progress--he is updated by crew personell but does not leave the cockpit--he has never had to turn a plane around except for a dire medical event but said he would if a situation had become so out of hand that a person could not be physically restrained. Bottom line this kind of thing is rare which is why it was in the news but a pilot has the right to decide if someone can fly--as for AMA--safety overides accommodations for the mentally handicapped.

[Anonymous]

I didn't think the woman who relayed her experience (seated next to the autistic child) was out of line at all.

She didn't ask for luxury, but it is fair to expect that air flights don't involve being kicked.

It is a tough situation. What do families with older autistic children do when they need to fly? This may be a place to go for answers that reek less of entitlement (both from the parents and the other passengers.)

Safety comes first. A child on the lap is not safe. Gear in the aisle is not safe. I, as a passenger, have a right to expect safety on an airplane. If you think an unrestrained "lap kid" can't hurt another passenger during a mishap, please reread your high school physics book.

[Anonymous]

I have no sympathy for folks who are so put out by getting their seat kicked for a few hours by an austistic kid. Autism is one helluva bomb for the universe to drop on a family, and count yourself lucky that it ends for you once you're off the plane.