spinoff- Do you need make-up and striaght hair to look "professional"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to get over yourself. You appear to have some real insecurities about being bi-racial.

OP here- you're ability to intuit is truly amazing, PP- my understanding of implicit racial bias in the workplace has caused me such great insecurity.

Or... you lack any thoughful framework whatsoever regarding race in America. I'm guessing it's the latter. The idea that an individual in the position to select candidates feels that naturally curly hair is unprofessional is problematic. She would likely think that a professional black woman with natural hair is "not trying" or doesn't care about her appearance. That implicit racial bias causes hiring disparities.

Yes, this. The attitude is pervasive. Think about the movie characters- crazy black women have natural hair, mad white women have curly hair. The demure and assimilated women have straight hair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to get over yourself. You appear to have some real insecurities about being bi-racial.

OP here- you're ability to intuit is truly amazing, PP- my understanding of implicit racial bias in the workplace has caused me such great insecurity.

Or... you lack any thoughful framework whatsoever regarding race in America. I'm guessing it's the latter. The idea that an individual in the position to select candidates feels that naturally curly hair is unprofessional is problematic. She would likely think that a professional black woman with natural hair is "not trying" or doesn't care about her appearance. That implicit racial bias causes hiring disparities.

Yes, this. The attitude is pervasive. Think about the movie characters- crazy black women have natural hair, mad white women have curly hair. The demure and assimilated women have straight hair.

The View.

[Anonymous]

I don't think either is necessary. I'm good at what I do, my 3 bosses appreciate me, and I've been in my current professional occupation for the past 10 years. I have naturally straight hair, do that's not an issue, but I never wear anything more than ChapStick. I hate makeup. It's never been an issue.

My DH's female boss also never wears makeup and she has done quite well for herself.

I agree with the other PP who mentioned all the women who perked their hair in the 80s. Straight hair is just the current fad. I hated my straight hair growing up!

[Anonymous]

Honestly, its moderation!!! Too MUCH make up is also very unprofessional. No make up is acceptable if you can get away with it...not many can.

You can absolutely have curly hair and be professional looking! You just need to make it look styled. There are plenty of frizzy haired women who just wash and go, when really they need to put a little more effort into their hair to make it look neat. That doesn't mean straighten. It just means gel, brush, good haircut, etc...Straight hair requires very little effort ot make it look neat. I think that is why so many people view it as professional.

[Anonymous]

I'm white with curly hair. Really straight hair on a white woman is not all that common. I agree that curly hair can look more unruly. Mine does.

[Anonymous]

I think that the people who think you are overreacting are lucky they haven't had to deal with this ugly part of race and gender discrimination. I used to be blissfully ignorant like them.

I had an internship at a major law firm and didn't get an offer. A good friend of mine who was a partner told me that my work was actually great, but some of the female partners complained that I didn't look "professional" enough because I wore my hair curly to work and didn't wear makeup. I guess in a place where all the professionals have straight, blonde, hair, you will look out of place with curly black hair. It's depressing.

[Anonymous]

OP, my first inclination was to say to finish your post "...in order to look WASPY". You may have a point, but I think that if some Washington women had it their way, we would all look like them. Truth be told, they don't look as good as they think they do. If I wrote this post, I would have changed it "Do you need short ugly a** hair..." LOL! No really, look around. I am not chopping my curls off for anybody. I am also not overdoing the makeup for anybody. They don't call this Ugly Hollywood for nothing, OP!

[Anonymous]

Im white. I grew up in a WASPY country-club like town, actually don't have that many black friends -- definitely not on purpose, but for whatever reason most of the people around me are white (which is another topic for another day).

Even given the above, it seems pretty obvious to me that black women are horribly at a disadvantage here in terms of "needing" to straighten their hair. Basically, I think it's fairly obvious even to my super-white self that black women basically have to try to look like they have white hair to fit in in many professional situations. It's ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

I've seen some amazing hairstyles that only a black woman could pull off. When you try to fit in with the rest, you lose your "personality". I say go with what your hair naturally does.

[Anonymous]

IMHO, this is definitely an issue. Though, I do think a lot depends on where you are and what field you're in. Several years ago I worked at a DC-area PR firm and was told my curly hair looked "too ethnic" and that (in reference to my habit of forgetting to re-apply make-up) "professionals refresh." (FYI- I'm White, non-WASP, Irish Catholic.) I know for a fact that this was an issue for me and the only black woman there because we are friends and I heard and saw what happened to her too. Fast forward a few years and I was sitting in a bar in Malibu with a (stunning) Middle Eastern friend. This woman approaches us and gives my friend her card, telling her she wants her to audition for a newscaster position. Without skipping a beat (or any prompting on my part, I was MMOB) she turns to me and apologetically tells me that no one wants my look anymore because I'm "not ethnic enough." Whatever. My opinion now is that any place that needs me to look a certain way in order to respect me, doesn't need me and I take my talent elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Make up, shaving every single hair that isn't on your head, skimpy clothes. What will be around the corner in it's a man's world and I need to do what pleases them. Live for yourself.

[Anonymous]

Wow, this is a depressing thread, to think that curly hair is seen as unprofessional.

I agree with other PPs that as long as your hair looks neat and well cared for, it's fine.

I also think professional women should wear a little bit of makeup -- if your skin doesn't need foundation, I think mascara, faint eyeliner and lipstick is ok.

[Anonymous]

I think it's more about your clothes and general appearance then make up and curls.

My hair is naturally straight, but I honestly almost never wear make up. I never really got the hang of it and lack the patience for it.

[Anonymous]

Make up -- yes. It makes you look more awake. Not too much.

Straight hair -- no. It needs to look neat... which in many cases means it should be pulled back or styled in a less casual way. Loose curly hair looks casual and free-wheeling whether it is on a white or dark skinned person.

The impression that loose curly hair (or just unruly hair) gives is that you are not down to business at work. It's not a race thing... it's a subtle statement about whether this person is in control or out of control. It may not be a true indicator, but that's the cue people take from it. For some jobs, it might be a plus (like maybe a job that requires you to be more fun, creative or spontaneous), but for most office jobs, buttoned up and tied down (or back) is the way to go.

[zumbamama]

I had an AA roommate in college. Our first semester, she was working at a bank and her hair was straight. Second semester, she decided to go natural. She kept it short and neat, but her job still gave her crap about it as well as her own family...saying she looked like a man and other insulting things. Then she started wrapping her hair with pretty head scarves and they didn't like that either. They didn't fire her, but she got the cold shoulder and eventually she quit. I think it was pretty sad, and even more so that her family preferred her hair straight. But I'm glad she chose to continue being natural herself anyway.