Do children with ADHD engage in the self stim behaviors that one sees on the spectrum

[Anonymous]

OP - Are you trying to determine if your child's ADHD is actually ASD?

Have you changed medications recently?
Maybe it's anxiety over a new situation at school?

If the behavior is not easy to explain, best to talk to a developmental pediatrician.

Can you provide age, more details on the exact behaviors you're talking about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen some stim behavior in children with ADHD but usually it is not as pronounced as kids on the spectrum. I've seen foot tapping, slight hand flapping, hand/finger clenching, rocking. But these usually show up when they have been asked to sit for a while and they get bored. It's not as rhythmic nor as drastic as autistic kids show.

It would be unusual to see any kind of hand flapping (or even clenching) in a child with only ADHD. That's pretty classic for ASDs.

Wow, a simple new test for autism!

Except it's not. This is the terrible problem with the "checklist" approach to Dxing ASDs.

I was a "flapper" and jumper as a kid, almost through elementary school. No autism here.

Next theory?

Didn't say absolutely. Said would be unusual. I'll stand by those statements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen some stim behavior in children with ADHD but usually it is not as pronounced as kids on the spectrum. I've seen foot tapping, slight hand flapping, hand/finger clenching, rocking. But these usually show up when they have been asked to sit for a while and they get bored. It's not as rhythmic nor as drastic as autistic kids show.

It would be unusual to see any kind of hand flapping (or even clenching) in a child with only ADHD. That's pretty classic for ASDs.

Wow, a simple new test for autism!

Except it's not. This is the terrible problem with the "checklist" approach to Dxing ASDs.

I was a "flapper" and jumper as a kid, almost through elementary school. No autism here.

Next theory?

Didn't say absolutely. Said would be unusual. I'll stand by those statements.

I think you missed the point of the post. The point of the post, which I tried to make earlier -- is that flapping and jumping are not "bingo!" signs for autism. They may appear on lists of symptoms of autism, but you can't assume a child has autism because he/she flaps and jumps.

Nor can you assume a child who stims has autism. Children with emotional problems, children with head injuries, brain injuries, and a whole range of disorders -- stim. The problem with having a little knowledge about autism in the form of a checklist is that you start making a lot of big assumptions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen some stim behavior in children with ADHD but usually it is not as pronounced as kids on the spectrum. I've seen foot tapping, slight hand flapping, hand/finger clenching, rocking. But these usually show up when they have been asked to sit for a while and they get bored. It's not as rhythmic nor as drastic as autistic kids show.

It would be unusual to see any kind of hand flapping (or even clenching) in a child with only ADHD. That's pretty classic for ASDs.

Wow, a simple new test for autism!

Except it's not. This is the terrible problem with the "checklist" approach to Dxing ASDs.

I was a "flapper" and jumper as a kid, almost through elementary school. No autism here.

Next theory?

Didn't say absolutely. Said would be unusual. I'll stand by those statements.

I think you missed the point of the post. The point of the post, which I tried to make earlier -- is that flapping and jumping are not "bingo!" signs for autism. They may appear on lists of symptoms of autism, but you can't assume a child has autism because he/she flaps and jumps.

Nor can you assume a child who stims has autism. Children with emotional problems, children with head injuries, brain injuries, and a whole range of disorders -- stim. The problem with having a little knowledge about autism in the form of a checklist is that you start making a lot of big assumptions.

I'm not sure why you think I missed the point of the post, and I never said those were definite signs of autism; however, I do think it's unusual for the self-stimming behaviors I listed (in response to the OP's question) to be associated with only ADHD. This thread began with a comparison of ADHD and ASD behaviors. FWIW, I work with special needs children, including those diagnosed with ASDs, on a daily basis.

[Anonymous]

OP Here

Thanks for all of the comments. What I was trying to figure out was the etiology of the spectrum like qualities that we see in our son who also has adhd qualities. Neither dx fits him perfectly and he has aspects of both plus OCD/anxiety. He also has other motor/dyspraxia issues, a pragmatic language impairment and some sensory issues. The stimming is mostly what we call "happy hands" -- hands moving in a spastic way at side of face and some grimacing and squeaking plus pacing with the gallopy gait ...

Those who see him diagnostically tend to say they wont put him on or off the spectrum but his attentional and anxiety issues should be treated. But he still needs a lot of speech language and behavioral supports to deal with the underlying issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have two ADHD kids, both who stimmed in various ways. Being on the spectrum was ruled out for both. I think there is a lot of cross-over in these neurological disorders that it makes sense to me that even though a child isn't ASD, he or she can exhibit ASD behaviors, maybe in milder ways.

I agree. One of my kids with ADHD does it. Other than stimming, he has no "typical" symptoms of ASD but it was definitively ruled out by NIH (in two different studies, different research teams) and by our developmental pediatrician. What he does has changed over the years but it's definitely stimming and medication doesn't impact it. It is easily interrupted and doesn't interfere with his interactions with us. He also won't do it in front of non-family.

[Anonymous]

Hi my daughter bangs her head against the wall and also she will get up and bounce up and down flapping her arms then sit down.(this is totally emotionless sometimes) Ive tried to explain this to the people assing her but they all say no shes too social to have asd.

[Anonymous]

my 10YO DD is not spectrum and no other diagnosis. She stims.

[Anonymous]

10:42 here. I just got to thinking. My 6 yo NT DD sucks her thumb. She especially likes to do it while she's watching TV and when she's sleepy.

[Anonymous]

I think as others have mentioned it depends on the type of stim and degree. Think of all the people you knew growing up who bit their nails or chewed on pencils. Those are stims. Tapping feet as another mentioned is a stim. Would those signal autism, not IMO.

Now let's look at enjoying playing with doors over and over. While this may be normal in toddlers, after that it tends to be a red flag. What about flapping?..-more typical with ASD as a PP said. What about bouncing on ones tush over and over-more common with ASD. Others that come to mind are flicking fingers in front of the eyes, saying certain words over and over, lining things up.

Keep in mind a lot of what used to get a label of say ADHD plus OCD and SID now gets a label of ASD. I think the most important thing is getting intervention. I've had parents tell me triumphantly that their child does not have ASD according to Dr. X and I think, yep, Dr. X told us the same thing...and he was wrong, but it also shows the "experts" still define ASD differently regardless of what the latest DSM says.