Grade 4 HGC Magnet Acceptance Test Score

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another issue to be aware of is that some of the tests are created specially for MoCo by the Pearson group of companies (I know this is true for the MS magnets but I don't know about the HGCs because DCs didn't apply). This because tests for the population as a whole effectively have a cap at the upper bound (lots of kids score in the 99th pctile) and MoCo wants to spread out this upper tail by means of a special test. There will still be a distribution and a mean to the results, but it's for the self-selected group of kids who took this specially-created test. Therefore, you won't be able to take your kid's score and go online to compare results with tests of the whole population, as you could with the WISC or SATs.

I seem to recall that the mean of accepted kids was printed at the bottom of the letters we got, but maybe that was for acceptance letters.

As another poster said, schools also look at teacher and parent recs for the HGCs, and also at grades. The magnets require a lot of work and they want kids who seem willing to do the work.

Oh, this kid's denial letter had the mean scores. He seems to be off for one score and really good on the other two. He has excellent school report for both 2nd and 3rd grade and is one of the who really need a HGC to succeed. His RIT is at 6th grade level for MCPS. Problem is without the distribution you cannot trust the mean score. The dad is trying to justify in the appeal from score perspective too.

I have one child in the HGC and one child who did not get in.

I can tell you that an RIT at the 6th grade level at the time of third grade testing -- so effectively 3 grade levels ahead -- is not particularly high for kids who are in the HGC program. I would estimate that most of the admitted kids enter fourth grade reading at least at 8th grade level.

My child who didn't get in also read at around a 6th grade level. Unfortunately, this is a group of kids who kind of get lost in the middle -- the regular program isn't enough for them but they don't get into HGCs so they are left without adequate challenge in reading. It sucks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I have one child in the HGC and one child who did not get in.

I can tell you that an RIT at the 6th grade level at the time of third grade testing -- so effectively 3 grade levels ahead -- is not particularly high for kids who are in the HGC program. I would estimate that most of the admitted kids enter fourth grade reading at least at 8th grade level.

My child who didn't get in also read at around a 6th grade level. Unfortunately, this is a group of kids who kind of get lost in the middle -- the regular program isn't enough for them but they don't get into HGCs so they are left without adequate challenge in reading. It sucks!

The kid whose RIT score is at 6th grade level can easily be reading at 8th grade level when he enters 4th grade in fall. There is 3 quarters between the last MAP-R testing and the fall 2011 (if you consider summer time as reading time too).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I have one child in the HGC and one child who did not get in.

I can tell you that an RIT at the 6th grade level at the time of third grade testing -- so effectively 3 grade levels ahead -- is not particularly high for kids who are in the HGC program. I would estimate that most of the admitted kids enter fourth grade reading at least at 8th grade level.

My child who didn't get in also read at around a 6th grade level. Unfortunately, this is a group of kids who kind of get lost in the middle -- the regular program isn't enough for them but they don't get into HGCs so they are left without adequate challenge in reading. It sucks!

The kid whose RIT score is at 6th grade level can easily be reading at 8th grade level when he enters 4th grade in fall. There is 3 quarters between the last MAP-R testing and the fall 2011 (if you consider summer time as reading time too).

I think the PP was referring to RIT scores achieved at the time of testing, not at the time they enter the program.

I too have one child who got in and another who didn't. My experience is the same as PP's in terms of these kids caught in the middle, except that I believe that the real reason DC didn't get in is that DC's teacher trashed DC in her "recommendation." (We saw this in our appeal.)

[Anonymous]

PP here -- all I'm saying is that reading two or even three years ahead of grade level is not necessarily commensurate with the level of kids in the HGC. Most of them read at a high school level in fourth grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I have one child in the HGC and one child who did not get in.

I can tell you that an RIT at the 6th grade level at the time of third grade testing -- so effectively 3 grade levels ahead -- is not particularly high for kids who are in the HGC program. I would estimate that most of the admitted kids enter fourth grade reading at least at 8th grade level.

My child who didn't get in also read at around a 6th grade level. Unfortunately, this is a group of kids who kind of get lost in the middle -- the regular program isn't enough for them but they don't get into HGCs so they are left without adequate challenge in reading. It sucks!

The kid whose RIT score is at 6th grade level can easily be reading at 8th grade level when he enters 4th grade in fall. There is 3 quarters between the last MAP-R testing and the fall 2011 (if you consider summer time as reading time too).

I think the PP was referring to RIT scores achieved at the time of testing, not at the time they enter the program.

I too have one child who got in and another who didn't. My experience is the same as PP's in terms of these kids caught in the middle, except that I believe that the real reason DC didn't get in is that DC's teacher trashed DC in her "recommendation." (We saw this in our appeal.)

Can I ask how the teacher "trashed" your child? Did it seem as though she was challenging his abilities to succeed in the program academically or did it appear that she just didn't like him/her personally? I realize that you probably don't want to be too specific, but could you elaborate a bit? TIA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I think the PP was referring to RIT scores achieved at the time of testing, not at the time they enter the program.

I too have one child who got in and another who didn't. My experience is the same as PP's in terms of these kids caught in the middle, except that I believe that the real reason DC didn't get in is that DC's teacher trashed DC in her "recommendation." (We saw this in our appeal.)[/quote]

I am also interested to learn how did they let you see the teacher's recommendation, since that information is supposed to be confidential. Dis you request this information through any special rule for appeal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think the PP was referring to RIT scores achieved at the time of testing, not at the time they enter the program.

I too have one child who got in and another who didn't. My experience is the same as PP's in terms of these kids caught in the middle, except that I believe that the real reason DC didn't get in is that DC's teacher trashed DC in her "recommendation." (We saw this in our appeal.)[/quote]

I am also interested to learn how did they let you see the teacher's recommendation, since that information is supposed to be confidential. Dis you request this information through any special rule for appeal?

It was on the second level of appeal. It is part of the larger file, available to see on second appeal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think the PP was referring to RIT scores achieved at the time of testing, not at the time they enter the program.

I too have one child who got in and another who didn't. My experience is the same as PP's in terms of these kids caught in the middle, except that I believe that the real reason DC didn't get in is that DC's teacher trashed DC in her "recommendation." (We saw this in our appeal.)[/quote]

I am also interested to learn how did they let you see the teacher's recommendation, since that information is supposed to be confidential. Dis you request this information through any special rule for appeal?

It was on the second level of appeal. It is part of the larger file, available to see on second appeal.

So finally did you succeed in the appeal process?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think the PP was referring to RIT scores achieved at the time of testing, not at the time they enter the program.

I too have one child who got in and another who didn't. My experience is the same as PP's in terms of these kids caught in the middle, except that I believe that the real reason DC didn't get in is that DC's teacher trashed DC in her "recommendation." (We saw this in our appeal.)[/quote]

I am also interested to learn how did they let you see the teacher's recommendation, since that information is supposed to be confidential. Dis you request this information through any special rule for appeal?

It was on the second level of appeal. It is part of the larger file, available to see on second appeal.

So finally did you succeed in the appeal process?

No.

Does anyone know what the success rate is re: appeals?

[Anonymous]

I wish your friend the best in the appeal process. I think they are going about it from the wrong angle though. I don't think they should be trying to compare their child's scores to those of other applicants or compare their child to other applicants in any regard for that matter. They really should be concentrating on making a case for why their child's needs won't be met in a regular classroom. Hire an advocate or consultant to help with the appeal. It doesn't matter why others were admitted.

Also, I don't think trying to prove them wrong will help at all and may hurt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wish your friend the best in the appeal process. I think they are going about it from the wrong angle though. I don't think they should be trying to compare their child's scores to those of other applicants or compare their child to other applicants in any regard for that matter. They really should be concentrating on making a case for why their child's needs won't be met in a regular classroom. Hire an advocate or consultant to help with the appeal. It doesn't matter why others were admitted.

Also, I don't think trying to prove them wrong will help at all and may hurt.

I think this is absolutely right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish your friend the best in the appeal process. I think they are going about it from the wrong angle though. I don't think they should be trying to compare their child's scores to those of other applicants or compare their child to other applicants in any regard for that matter. They really should be concentrating on making a case for why their child's needs won't be met in a regular classroom. Hire an advocate or consultant to help with the appeal. It doesn't matter why others were admitted.

Also, I don't think trying to prove them wrong will help at all and may hurt.

I think this is absolutely right.

I agree with PPs. Plus the appeal requirements are very specific. As I remember, there are three possible reasons to appeal - mistaken information, new information (and something else, I forget. ....). You MUST structure you appeal on one of these three prongs or you will be automatically denied at this stage, no matter how great you think your arguments are. You can raise the test score issue to preserve it for a second level appeal, but it will not get you success unless you can frame it in terms of the appeal prongs.

For example, under "new information" you could give additional details about your child's reading progression since the application due date - what is the current reading level, is child highest reader in the class? by how much? what is the composition of child's reading group? has child shown unusual interests, deep questioning, motivation, or boredom? etc.?

[Anonymous]

I'm only familiar with a few families who have tried to appeal, but the results were not good.

In cases where a kid was rejected, the big concession was to move the kid from the rejected list to the wait list. Like all wait lists, this is basically a "no-man's land" and means nothing for getting into the magnet at the end of the day.

The reality is, by this time all the magnets have filled their classes, and they don't have room for additional kids. You will have to make a case as to why the kid needs to be jumped over every other well-qualified kid on the wait list, and this is tough to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm only familiar with a few families who have tried to appeal, but the results were not good.

In cases where a kid was rejected, the big concession was to move the kid from the rejected list to the wait list. Like all wait lists, this is basically a "no-man's land" and means nothing for getting into the magnet at the end of the day.

The reality is, by this time all the magnets have filled their classes, and they don't have room for additional kids. You will have to make a case as to why the kid needs to be jumped over every other well-qualified kid on the wait list, and this is tough to do.

I think you are right about those who are rejected outright -- slim chance because the "cure" is to put them on the waitlist with other qualified applicants who were deemed qualified but weren't admitted. BUT, by the same logic, if one has a kid who is waitlisted and one writes an appeal challenging the waitlist decision, then the "cure" is admission. This was the situation for the one person I know who successfully appealed -- the family provided new/additional information on appeal of a decision to waitlist and child was admitted.

BTW, the timing of the appeal is such that one must write and submit the appeal prior to the decision required of admitted parents to accept admission. I think it is usually the case that more kids are admitted than there are seats because not everyone accepts, but I also think that it is often the case that magnets have to take from the waitlist at some point before school starts. No administration can perfectly guess how many will accept, but no administration wants to make the mistake of guessing to much to the wrong side (i.e. ultimately having more acceptances than seats).

[Anonymous]

In your friend's case of successful appeal, do you know what kind of new information they brought ?