What is the appeal process for MCPS elementary magnet program

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Look at his MARP-R scores. At what grade level does he read? My son who was admitted to an HGC read, in third grade, at a 12th grade+ level. My daughter, who in third grade read at a 6th grade level, was not admitted. So while they will say something like "HGC kids typically read two or more grade levels above," in reality most of them read at the top of the high school level.

Do you have outside testing, like IQ testing? If so, you should look for an IQ score on the WISC that's 135 or better (I learned this from an educational consultant and I believe it was accurate for last year's pool). It's not that there aren't kids with a lower IQ in the program, but more that a score lower than that won't help you make your case on appeal.

If his scores on all the tests were well below the mean, unless there are some really significant extenuating circumstances, it will be hard to make your case.

What are MARP-R scores? And why would they base entrance on IQ scores? Are IQ tests given to all 3rd graders at MCPS?

[Anonymous]

Sorry, I meant MAP-R scores.

MAP-R is a reading test that kids get starting in third grade. They take it three times a year. So if you could show a high level of reading that was inconsistent with lower scores on the HGC tests, that might be one way to make your case. Ask your child's teacher or the school counselor to send them to you -- you have a right to see them.

The same thing with IQ scores. They don't use them as part of the HGC evaluation process. However, if your child scored under the mean for the entrance testing, you could use a high IQ score as one piece of evidence in an appeal, to show that your child should be included in the pool.

Also be aware that an appeal will only get you into the waiting pool, so even if you win the appeal you aren't guaranteed a spot.

[Anonymous]

PP again -- what I'm saying in a nutshell is that you need to bring something NEW to your appeal. You can't just say, my kid should have been admitted, so please reconsider.

So these are all ideas of things that could be considered new information that would support your claim that the entrance testing didn't accurately assess your child's abilities and potential.

[Anonymous]

Someone wanted to know what differences there are between the regular program and the HGC program. My kid is now in high school, so this is several years ago- but one difference I noted was the use of the Wordly Wise Vocabulary books. They are fantastic! You can get them online.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This is wishful thinking and really completely untrue.

There are many many differences and homework is really the least of them. There's also no way that regular ES teachers would be remotely prepared to oversee the projects that they do. Then there's the writing, the vocabulary building, the problem solving in class with a true peer group, etc. etc.

This information is actually very helpful. Can anyone identify a list of services the magnet student in elementary school magnet get (in various subjects) that students at regular elementary school would not get. This would definitely help e justify the need during the appeal process.

A teacher can teach a home school class one year and the HGC class the next. The teacher can handle the assignments.

[Anonymous]

But they can't do it ALL AT ONCE. That's the whole point of the GT advocacy thread.

Teachers must plan and prepare for the lessons they teach -- they don't just do it on the fly. Teachers would essentially teaching two different classes, and they just wouldn't have the time to do that.

Your comments in this thread make me think that you don't have any idea what you are talking about. I challenge you to tell us why you think you have knowledge that no one else does.

[Anonymous]

"A teacher can teach a home school class one year and the HGC class the next. The teacher can handle the assignments. "

...

And you know this ... how? Can you give examples of any teachers who have done this? Because my wife works at one of the HGCs, and I can tell you anecdotally that to my knowledge, such a pattern not only doesn't exist; it would be very difficult to implement. Teachers work for years to learn the curriculum specific to what they need to teach, to expand on it, to get to know the tricks for how best to teach it. They can't just switch gears, voila! in the way you suggest.

Like the PP, the more posts of yours that I read, the more I see that you don't know what the heck you are talking about. It is clear that you have zero experience with any of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"A teacher can teach a home school class one year and the HGC class the next. The teacher can handle the assignments. "

...

And you know this ... how? Can you give examples of any teachers who have done this? Because my wife works at one of the HGCs, and I can tell you anecdotally that to my knowledge, such a pattern not only doesn't exist; it would be very difficult to implement. Teachers work for years to learn the curriculum specific to what they need to teach, to expand on it, to get to know the tricks for how best to teach it. They can't just switch gears, voila! in the way you suggest.

Like the PP, the more posts of yours that I read, the more I see that you don't know what the heck you are talking about. It is clear that you have zero experience with any of this.

. Ask your wife if all of the HGC teachers at her school taught in the center last year. My child's HGC teacher did not. She taught another grade in the same school. We are very happy with her as an educator. Apparently I have more confidence in your wife's abilities than you do. I have not encountered a single bad educator in MCPS. I have not met a MCPS ES teacher who would be unable to teach in the HGC. Yes, they would need to make new lesson plans. And teachers who change grades also need to write new lesson plans, as do good teachers who are trying to improve thier teaching methods. Finally, for what it is worth, I happen to think we need more HGCs in MCPS and I think we have the talent in the system to staff the new centers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"A teacher can teach a home school class one year and the HGC class the next. The teacher can handle the assignments. "

...And you know this ... how? Can you give examples of any teachers who have done this? Because my wife works at one of the HGCs, and I can tell you anecdotally that to my knowledge, such a pattern not only doesn't exist; it would be very difficult to implement. Teachers work for years to learn the curriculum specific to what they need to teach, to expand on it, to get to know the tricks for how best to teach it. They can't just switch gears, voila! in the way you suggest.

Like the PP, the more posts of yours that I read, the more I see that you don't know what the heck you are talking about. It is clear that you have zero experience with any of this.

.
Ask your wife if all of the HGC teachers at her school taught in the center last year. My child's HGC teacher did not. She taught another grade in the same school. We are very happy with her as an educator. Apparently I have more confidence in your wife's abilities than you do. I have not encountered a single bad educator in MCPS. I have not met a MCPS ES teacher who would be unable to teach in the HGC. Yes, they would need to make new lesson plans. And teachers who change grades also need to write new lesson plans, as do good teachers who are trying to improve thier teaching methods. Finally, for what it is worth, I happen to think we need more HGCs in MCPS and I think we have the talent in the system to staff the new centers.

Seriously? Because I've met a few. Yes, most are great, but are few have been not so great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"A teacher can teach a home school class one year and the HGC class the next. The teacher can handle the assignments. "

...And you know this ... how? Can you give examples of any teachers who have done this? Because my wife works at one of the HGCs, and I can tell you anecdotally that to my knowledge, such a pattern not only doesn't exist; it would be very difficult to implement. Teachers work for years to learn the curriculum specific to what they need to teach, to expand on it, to get to know the tricks for how best to teach it. They can't just switch gears, voila! in the way you suggest.

Like the PP, the more posts of yours that I read, the more I see that you don't know what the heck you are talking about. It is clear that you have zero experience with any of this.

.
Ask your wife if all of the HGC teachers at her school taught in the center last year. My child's HGC teacher did not. She taught another grade in the same school. We are very happy with her as an educator. Apparently I have more confidence in your wife's abilities than you do. I have not encountered a single bad educator in MCPS. I have not met a MCPS ES teacher who would be unable to teach in the HGC. Yes, they would need to make new lesson plans. And teachers who change grades also need to write new lesson plans, as do good teachers who are trying to improve thier teaching methods. Finally, for what it is worth, I happen to think we need more HGCs in MCPS and I think we have the talent in the system to staff the new centers.

Seriously? Because I've met a few. Yes, most are great, but are few have been not so great.

What a contrast in attitudes. There is one parent with a positive and caring attitude, who I am sure does a better job than the cynical and negative one, who I am sure has no idea how to get the best out of anyone. Keep it up!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This is wishful thinking and really completely untrue.

There are many many differences and homework is really the least of them. There's also no way that regular ES teachers would be remotely prepared to oversee the projects that they do. Then there's the writing, the vocabulary building, the problem solving in class with a true peer group, etc. etc.

This information is actually very helpful. Can anyone identify a list of services the magnet student in elementary school magnet get (in various subjects) that students at regular elementary school would not get. This would definitely help e justify the need during the appeal process.

A teacher can teach a home school class one year and the HGC class the next. The teacher can handle the assignments.

This is not the case at our HGC unless the teacher is filling a slot from a retiring teacher. The same HGC teachers teach year after year at our school and they really know quite a lot about the HG child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This is wishful thinking and really completely untrue.

There are many many differences and homework is really the least of them. There's also no way that regular ES teachers would be remotely prepared to oversee the projects that they do. Then there's the writing, the vocabulary building, the problem solving in class with a true peer group, etc. etc.

This information is actually very helpful. Can anyone identify a list of services the magnet student in elementary school magnet get (in various subjects) that students at regular elementary school would not get. This would definitely help e justify the need during the appeal process.

A teacher can teach a home school class one year and the HGC class the next. The teacher can handle the assignments.

This is not the case at our HGC unless the teacher is filling a slot from a retiring teacher. The same HGC teachers teach year after year at our school and they really know quite a lot about the HG child.

This is also the case at our HGC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"A teacher can teach a home school class one year and the HGC class the next. The teacher can handle the assignments. "

...And you know this ... how? Can you give examples of any teachers who have done this? Because my wife works at one of the HGCs, and I can tell you anecdotally that to my knowledge, such a pattern not only doesn't exist; it would be very difficult to implement. Teachers work for years to learn the curriculum specific to what they need to teach, to expand on it, to get to know the tricks for how best to teach it. They can't just switch gears, voila! in the way you suggest.

Like the PP, the more posts of yours that I read, the more I see that you don't know what the heck you are talking about. It is clear that you have zero experience with any of this.

.
Ask your wife if all of the HGC teachers at her school taught in the center last year. My child's HGC teacher did not. She taught another grade in the same school. We are very happy with her as an educator. Apparently I have more confidence in your wife's abilities than you do. I have not encountered a single bad educator in MCPS. I have not met a MCPS ES teacher who would be unable to teach in the HGC. Yes, they would need to make new lesson plans. And teachers who change grades also need to write new lesson plans, as do good teachers who are trying to improve thier teaching methods. Finally, for what it is worth, I happen to think we need more HGCs in MCPS and I think we have the talent in the system to staff the new centers.

Seriously? Because I've met a few. Yes, most are great, but are few have been not so great.

What a contrast in attitudes. There is one parent with a positive and caring attitude, who I am sure does a better job than the cynical and negative one, who I am sure has no idea how to get the best out of anyone. Keep it up!

You are tiresome and self-righteous. Frankly, most of the the HG center parents come across that way.

[Anonymous]

More than half the parents at our elementary school think their children should be accepted into the HGC. When they tested, 50% of my daughter's class chose to be tested. Strange! How can 50% of children have an IQ in the highly gifted range? This tells me that many parents overestimate their children's academic abilities. In our school, parents love to tout their children's academic achievements and test scores, but something doesn't add up! In the end, a large number of parents are going to be disappointed come March of every year. What message are the kids getting? There are too many children who believe that their entire self worth is determined by acceptance into a gifted program.

There are many bright children who do not attend the HGC who go on to take very challenging classes in middle and high school. Your child's fate is not sealed by a rejection.

And don't forget that there are many academically challenging private schools to which you can apply.

My child didn't test for the gifted program. I didn't think she'd make the cut and that's just fine with me. For what it's worth, they're not just looking for intelligent kids, they're looking for kids who are off the charts.

[Anonymous]

Maybe they are testing because they aren't sure? It's hard to know what your child's abilities are. That doesn't make them crazy, pushy parents who over-estimate their kids' academic abilities -- everyone has the right to give the test a shot! Would you prefer that the county be the gatekeeper of who gets to take it?

And of course there are many bright kids who don't "make the cut" -- that's the whole point of the HGC. It's supposed to serve children in the upper 2 or 3% who really can't be served easily by their home school. Like it or not, those kids exist and they have the right to an appropriate education, even if it means that some parents will be disappointed.

THe problem isn't the HGCs, IMO. it's the fact that people think that not getting into one means you're not really "gifted", when in reality being in the 94% percentile is still pretty damn gifted and deserving of challenge. It's the fact that MCPS doesn't have any really effective way if challenging kids who fall under the 2 - 3% or who don't want to/can't attend a school other than their home school, particularly in elementary school.