Temping as an attorney -- tips?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I temped for 5 years and never once did I feel shame. The shame comes from within. I've met great people at great firms and have always felt part of a team--usually working on a high profile case. I have learned a lot about the law and like the PPs have said, the money is good and so is the flexibility. I was lucky in that i landed on long term projects so that probably contributed to the overall good feeling. There IS NO SHAME in temping. Go in, be professional and you will be treated accordingly.
I highly recommend signing up with lots of agencies but listening in on what people are saying of the market--you will be with people who know it inside and out and they're usually your best bet to get on a project.

Good luck!

I just don't see it. So you walk past dozens of attorneys with their own offices to sit at some table or maybe a cubicle doing grunt mindless work all day, not thinking or having interaction with the client, and you don't see the shame? You spent 3 years and passed the bar for this??? And the money is not good anymore.

Correct. I didn't feel shame. At the end of the day, i went home and slept. Work stayed at work. I was able to take months off at a time to go visit my family (who doesn't live in the US) and like I said, the work is only mindless if you make it mindless but discovery is a HUGE part of a lot of the law and knowing how to coordinate large scale discovery is a SKILL--one that i feel proud to have. Why are you so judgmental? Does having a secretary really give you respect? HELL NO. I've met countless of brilliant contract attorneys who are all in it for their own reasons.

[Anonymous]

I'm not judgmental against them, I am commiserating. I'm glad it worked for you and you didn't feel any shame. That, from my perspective, is a unique (perhaps head in the sand) approach. There are countless temporary attorney blogs that tell the other side of the story - attorneys with crushing debt who have no chance at a decent job, who take these temp attorney jobs with no benefits. there is no way out since not too many law firms consider it worthwhile experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not judgmental against them, I am commiserating. I'm glad it worked for you and you didn't feel any shame. That, from my perspective, is a unique (perhaps head in the sand) approach. There are countless temporary attorney blogs that tell the other side of the story - attorneys with crushing debt who have no chance at a decent job, who take these temp attorney jobs with no benefits. there is no way out since not too many law firms consider it worthwhile experience.

Dont get me wrong. It wasn't why i went to law school but it did work for me. Plus, I had language skills to offer. And I never accepted big factory projects. There wasn't a day i hated going to work. I learned a lot from my years as a temp and you're right, i do feel like my situation/outlook was very different than a lot of people around me. Those who feel shame never make it long in the contract attorney world. Their unhappiness will spiral them out of work.

[Anonymous]

I temped when I first moved to DC for about 4 months only. On one hand, it was mindless work and good pay (foreign language project). On the other hand, it was hell. It was the heyday and I was required to work about 70 hours/week, sitting in a huge conference room squished in between others. No privacy, my elbows squished on both sides. On this project, we were not allowed to go online and not allowed to use phones. There were two new associates at the firm supervising us and they were ok but one mean partner liked to come in and "catch" people talking and they'd get yelled at.

That big project is not necessarily representative but it's a decent picture. I made a few good friends on that project and DH also did this for a little while before we become biglaw associates (we were new grads at the time). Neither of us put it on our resume when we looked for "real jobs"--we both went to good law schools, did well, moved to DC without having summered here and needed to find our way into firms. Contract jobs didn't get us in but they paid the bills in the meantime. I think the following summarizes who temps:

1. People who do it quite briefly to earn $ before getting a permanent position. They are reasonably happy.
2. People who think they will do it briefly but don't have what it takes to get a permanent position (either b/c they don't have the credentials--not great law school or not great performance, or because they just don't get themselves together to apply). These are among the most miserable lot I have encountered and are full of complaints.
3. People with JDs who subsidize their true love (performing music, traveling), etc.--so this is their day job, or they work on and off as needed to pay the bills. They're reasonably happy.
4. People who have to resort to the this because they were fired from other jobs and/or completely incompetent as lawyers;
5. Foreign-born lawyers who do get barred here but nonetheless don't have the English writing skills to get a permanent lawyer job. Some accept this and some don't, happiness dependent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:13:02--how did you temp with a child? Was he school age? I am looking to get back to work and, while I loved temp work, I can't picture doing it with a baby. What did you do about childcare? The work is inconsistent, so how did you manage? Was your LO in full time daycare and you just sucked it up while inbetween gigs?

My first was in a day care center. I worked pretty consistently for a while, and then in the spring of 2009 when there was no work I kept him in 2 days a week to hold open the spot until I went back to work. After I had my second we switched to an in-home day care, and yes, we just sucked it up between gigs, but again I worked pretty consistently (at the same firm, rolled from project to project). In-home was significantly cheaper than the center so that helped when I did have a week or two off here or there.

To address what some PPs have mentioned about hours, you have a choice of what jobs to accept. I just told my agencies that I was available for projects that required no more than 50 hours per week. They will just call you for projects for which you are eligible if you have hours limitations. There is less work than there used to be, no doubt about it ... what helps is being on small projects where you can get recognized for your good work and have the firm ask you back in the future, which then gets you recognized by your agency as someone they want to keep working for them. There are so many agencies that in some ways, they compete to keep the best contractors, so if they like you they will try their best to keep you working for them as consistently as possible.

[Anonymous]

What are the odds of finding a contract attorney job, if I'm a government lawyer and there ends up being a furlough? Are there day-to-day or indefinite duration projects? This would have to be on a case in which the government is not a party and has no substantial interest. Tips or thoughts?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not judgmental against them, I am commiserating. I'm glad it worked for you and you didn't feel any shame. That, from my perspective, is a unique (perhaps head in the sand) approach. There are countless temporary attorney blogs that tell the other side of the story - attorneys with crushing debt who have no chance at a decent job, who take these temp attorney jobs with no benefits. there is no way out since not too many law firms consider it worthwhile experience.

It's not unique. On this thread alone, there have been multiple people saying that it worked for them, withouth the least bit of shame. I'm one of them.

Maybe the difference in perspective has something to do with control and choice. For me, temping was not at all a dead end job or my only chance to practice law. Quite the opposite, actually. Prior to temping, I was on partnership track at a top tier firm in town. I had been there for years, worked on relatively interesting matters with very smart (and mostly nice) colleagues, and paid off my loans. But I wasn't at all happy with practicing law long-term, so I quit BigLaw to pursue a new career.

In the transition, temporary contract work was a great way to help pay the bills. I wasn't bitter, and I certainly wasn't envious of the associates who had their own office. Instead, I was focused on my future and grateful to have work that paid relatively well and did not come home with me. All good.

FWIW, I'm not the only one who has followed this path. There are tons of us who willingly opted out of BigLaw and used temping as a way to bridge the gap, either to a new career or to a far more flexible quality of life. In fact, there's a whole company built around this model. I think it's called Axiom Legal, or something like that. They tend to hire top-credentialed attorneys with BigLaw experience and a desire to practice in a more temporary/flexible way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What are the odds of finding a contract attorney job, if I'm a government lawyer and there ends up being a furlough? Are there day-to-day or indefinite duration projects? This would have to be on a case in which the government is not a party and has no substantial interest. Tips or thoughts?

When you are offered a project, they will estimate how long it will go on, and you verbally commit to sticking with the project for at least that period of time. Generally the estimates run between two weeks and two months, although there are occasionally shorter and longer projects. Not to say that people don't leave projects before they end, but it's very much frowned upon and it may well burn your bridge with whatever agency you were working for. If you have a very tight timeframe in which you need to be working, it is much less likely to work out for you than if your timeframe was more open-ended. It takes some time to get signed up with agencies, interview with them, and then wait for a project for which you are qualified and available to begin. Plus since you are employed already I would think that agencies would not be keen to place someone who they know could get called back to work at any moment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the following summarizes who temps:

1. People who do it quite briefly to earn $ before getting a permanent position. They are reasonably happy.
2. People who think they will do it briefly but don't have what it takes to get a permanent position (either b/c they don't have the credentials--not great law school or not great performance, or because they just don't get themselves together to apply). These are among the most miserable lot I have encountered and are full of complaints.
3. People with JDs who subsidize their true love (performing music, traveling), etc.--so this is their day job, or they work on and off as needed to pay the bills. They're reasonably happy.
4. People who have to resort to the this because they were fired from other jobs and/or completely incompetent as lawyers;
5. Foreign-born lawyers who do get barred here but nonetheless don't have the English writing skills to get a permanent lawyer job. Some accept this and some don't, happiness dependent.

I would add to that the following:

6. People who were laid off during the recession and have not yet found a new permanent job.
7. Parents who want to be able to spend more time with their kids than the life of an associate/partner would allow.
8. People who are leaving the law and are transitioning to a new career.
9. People who use temping to pay the bills as they are starting up their own solo practices.
10. People who are retired and temp to supplement their income.

I have to say that in the past 2.5 years of doing this, I have met far more people who are happy or at least content temping than those who are unhappy, even among your #2 above and my #6, both categories of people who have been thrown a curve ball and are not doing exactly what they planned. I have met a few who were miserable, but most were sanguine about it.

Working conditions vary a lot as well. I've been very lucky to have worked with staff attorneys (also sometimes called litigation attorneys or discovery attorneys) rather than associates or partners and almost to a person they have been nice and laid back and easy to work with. I've never worked in a windowless room, and I've never been squished into a small space. And when I leave at 5 and don't have to think about work until I arrive the next day, I'm definitely not jealous of any of the associates or partners!

[Anonymous]

The problem with temping is that the agency is making a killing off you. Back in the days I did it, the agency charged the client $60 an hour for me, and paid me only $35 an hour. Barely worth it to cover childcare costs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the following summarizes who temps:

1. People who do it quite briefly to earn $ before getting a permanent position. They are reasonably happy.
2. People who think they will do it briefly but don't have what it takes to get a permanent position (either b/c they don't have the credentials--not great law school or not great performance, or because they just don't get themselves together to apply). These are among the most miserable lot I have encountered and are full of complaints.
3. People with JDs who subsidize their true love (performing music, traveling), etc.--so this is their day job, or they work on and off as needed to pay the bills. They're reasonably happy.
4. People who have to resort to the this because they were fired from other jobs and/or completely incompetent as lawyers;
5. Foreign-born lawyers who do get barred here but nonetheless don't have the English writing skills to get a permanent lawyer job. Some accept this and some don't, happiness dependent.

I would add to that the following:

6. People who were laid off during the recession and have not yet found a new permanent job.
7. Parents who want to be able to spend more time with their kids than the life of an associate/partner would allow.
8. People who are leaving the law and are transitioning to a new career.
9. People who use temping to pay the bills as they are starting up their own solo practices.
10. People who are retired and temp to supplement their income.

I have to say that in the past 2.5 years of doing this, I have met far more people who are happy or at least content temping than those who are unhappy, even among your #2 above and my #6, both categories of people who have been thrown a curve ball and are not doing exactly what they planned. I have met a few who were miserable, but most were sanguine about it.

Working conditions vary a lot as well. I've been very lucky to have worked with staff attorneys (also sometimes called litigation attorneys or discovery attorneys) rather than associates or partners and almost to a person they have been nice and laid back and easy to work with. I've never worked in a windowless room, and I've never been squished into a small space. And when I leave at 5 and don't have to think about work until I arrive the next day, I'm definitely not jealous of any of the associates or partners!

I agree completely. I am entirely offended by the person who says there is shame to it. There is absolutely no shame to it and it's ridiculous to think that walking past an associate in their own office is something to be envious of. It's also very narrow minded to think of contract attorneys as solely comprised of people who didn't make big law. I also temped for a long period of time and like this poster, i've never experienced oppressive conditions. We have always had internet; flexibility in hours; input on the case etc. Most associates and partners i worked with were thankful to have us there and saw value in our work. I dont get this 'shame' talk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem with temping is that the agency is making a killing off you. Back in the days I did it, the agency charged the client $60 an hour for me, and paid me only $35 an hour. Barely worth it to cover childcare costs.

You dont think $72k/yr is worth it? Well, maybe it's not for you. For some people, that's a lot of money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are the odds of finding a contract attorney job, if I'm a government lawyer and there ends up being a furlough? Are there day-to-day or indefinite duration projects? This would have to be on a case in which the government is not a party and has no substantial interest. Tips or thoughts?

When you are offered a project, they will estimate how long it will go on, and you verbally commit to sticking with the project for at least that period of time. Generally the estimates run between two weeks and two months, although there are occasionally shorter and longer projects. Not to say that people don't leave projects before they end, but it's very much frowned upon and it may well burn your bridge with whatever agency you were working for. If you have a very tight timeframe in which you need to be working, it is much less likely to work out for you than if your timeframe was more open-ended. It takes some time to get signed up with agencies, interview with them, and then wait for a project for which you are qualified and available to begin. Plus since you are employed already I would think that agencies would not be keen to place someone who they know could get called back to work at any moment.

The key is having an in with the agencies and the agencies want to please their client. You would be considered high risk since your chances of bailing are great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I temped for 5 years and never once did I feel shame. The shame comes from within. I've met great people at great firms and have always felt part of a team--usually working on a high profile case. I have learned a lot about the law and like the PPs have said, the money is good and so is the flexibility. I was lucky in that i landed on long term projects so that probably contributed to the overall good feeling. There IS NO SHAME in temping. Go in, be professional and you will be treated accordingly.
I highly recommend signing up with lots of agencies but listening in on what people are saying of the market--you will be with people who know it inside and out and they're usually your best bet to get on a project.

Good luck!

I just don't see it. So you walk past dozens of attorneys with their own offices to sit at some table or maybe a cubicle doing grunt mindless work all day, not thinking or having interaction with the client, and you don't see the shame? You spent 3 years and passed the bar for this??? And the money is not good anymore.

This is the most offensive posting/outlook on contract attorneys I have ever seen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I temped for 5 years and never once did I feel shame. The shame comes from within. I've met great people at great firms and have always felt part of a team--usually working on a high profile case. I have learned a lot about the law and like the PPs have said, the money is good and so is the flexibility. I was lucky in that i landed on long term projects so that probably contributed to the overall good feeling. There IS NO SHAME in temping. Go in, be professional and you will be treated accordingly.
I highly recommend signing up with lots of agencies but listening in on what people are saying of the market--you will be with people who know it inside and out and they're usually your best bet to get on a project.

Good luck!

I just don't see it. So you walk past dozens of attorneys with their own offices to sit at some table or maybe a cubicle doing grunt mindless work all day, not thinking or having interaction with the client, and you don't see the shame? You spent 3 years and passed the bar for this??? And the money is not good anymore.

This is the most offensive posting/outlook on contract attorneys I have ever seen.

I agree. I wonder if the poster is an arrogant and condescending BigLaw associate (or wannabe) or a sad sack who for whatever reason has poor job prospects and is choosing to lash out at people who are happy with their situation.

Either way, I think he or she is the one who should feel shame.